National ATF Considers changing definition of ghost guns

[CLT65]

I have it on good authority from several Biden voters here that this can't and won't happen. So there.

I think you misunderstand them. I doubt that many of them are actually bothered by this. A few "reasonable, common-sense" laws are fine with most of them. So long as Biden, et al. aren't physically going house to house taking away their fine hunting rifles and skeet guns, I suspect that most of them will defend pretty much anything he does.

A "progressive" acquaintance (with a serious gun collection) told me a long time ago that he would be fine with giving up his guns, in return for "a little social justice in this country".

 

[Ura-Ki]

This is where I get confused. I bought an AR lower awhile ago, and it has a unique serial # on it. How is that considered 'undetectable?'

It's the 80% lower paper weight with no SN# that they are after, the one it is perfectly legal for you to have and to finish into what ever you want, even a working firearm!

 

[Alexx1401]

This is where I get confused. I bought an AR lower awhile ago, and it has a unique serial # on it. How is that considered 'undetectable?'

Because law makers very often do not know which end of a gun the bullet comes out. Laws are written by people who often seem almost illiterate. A while ago the WA AG jumped on the casper gun thing with both feet. They tried a ham handed shot that did not really outlaw 80% lowers but did scare off a lot of the vendors who sell them.
In you case if the number you are talking about is a serial # did you get a back ground check when you bought it? If so you are NOT what the AG and such are talking about. Someone told him you could use a 3D printer and make a pistol with so little metal in it you could walk through detectors with it. Of course the ammo for the gun would set them off but that does not matter.
WA is like CA in that a lot of gun owners sit on their hands with their eyes shut tight and ignore what the law makers are doing. Given a couple more chances they will do away with all 80% and such here. Just takes them a while to pass a coherent law.

 

[Alexx1401]

I think you misunderstand them. I doubt that many of them are actually bothered by this. A few "reasonable, common-sense" laws are fine with most of them. So long as Biden, et al. aren't physically going house to house taking away their fine hunting rifles and skeet guns, I suspect that most of them will defend pretty much anything he does.

A "progressive" acquaintance (with a serious gun collection) told me a long time ago that he would be fine with giving up his guns, in return for "a little social justice in this country".

This great hoax has proven a vast majority of the US is willing to give up most all rights as long as they get a promise to be taken care of. Freedom has been too cheap and easy for too long sadly. People often don't know what they had till its gone

 

[STONER_63]

I think you misunderstand them. I doubt that many of them are actually bothered by this. A few "reasonable, common-sense" laws are fine with most of them. So long as Biden, et al. aren't physically going house to house taking away their fine hunting rifles and skeet guns, I suspect that most of them will defend pretty much anything he does.

A "progressive" acquaintance (with a serious gun collection) told me a long time ago that he would be fine with giving up his guns, in return for "a little social justice in this country".

If they are making you give up your guns, 'a little' is all you're gonna get! And damned little at that.

 

[STONER_63]

Because law makers very often do not know which end of a gun the bullet comes out. Laws are written by people who often seem almost illiterate. A while ago the WA AG jumped on the casper gun thing with both feet. They tried a ham handed shot that did not really outlaw 80% lowers but did scare off a lot of the vendors who sell them.
In you case if the number you are talking about is a serial # did you get a back ground check when you bought it? If so you are NOT what the AG and such are talking about. Someone told him you could use a 3D printer and make a pistol with so little metal in it you could walk through detectors with it. Of course the ammo for the gun would set them off but that does not matter.
WA is like CA in that a lot of gun owners sit on their hands with their eyes shut tight and ignore what the law makers are doing. Given a couple more chances they will do away with all 80% and such here. Just takes them a while to pass a coherent law.

Good points! And speaking of gun illiteracy, check out this post from Washington's very own Rep. Derek Kilmer. It would be funnier if it weren't so utterly terrifying ... but it's still funny.

 

[Alexx1401]

Good points! And speaking of gun illiteracy, check out this post from Washington's very own Rep. Derek Kilmer. It would be funnier if it weren't so utterly terrifying ... but it's still funny.

That was hard to even read. Interesting claims. One that stood out was Stoner. Did he really say his AR was not protected by 2A?? Never heard that one before. Would be very sad if he really said it.

 

[STONER_63]

Good points! And speaking of gun illiteracy, check out this post from Washington's very own Rep. Derek Kilmer. It would be funnier if it weren't so utterly terrifying ... but it's still funny.

I actually emailed Rep. Kilmer's office to set them straight, but as you can see they ignored my email ... par for the course when emailing anyone with a 'D' after their name re: guns

 

[STONER_63]

That was hard to even read. Interesting claims. One that stood out was Stoner. Did he really say his AR was not protected by 2A?? Never heard that one before. Would be very sad if he really said it.

I cannot find a quote from Mr. Stoner to support his family's claims. In today's environment, I am pretty skeptical to say the least. I imagine they just feel guilty about where their family wealth comes from ... must be nice!

 

[Alexx1401]

I cannot find a quote from Mr. Stoner to support his family's claims. In today's environment, I am pretty skeptical to say the least. I imagine they just feel guilty about where their family wealth comes from ... must be nice!

OK, now that makes sense. I did not realize the claim was made by a family member. I know Bill Ruger Sr was very anti gun which was sad. I had never heard that Stoner felt that way and if the family is only making the claim after he was gone? I too find it hard to believe.

 

[STONER_63]

OK, now that makes sense. I did not realize the claim was made by a family member. I know Bill Ruger Sr was very anti gun which was sad. I had never heard that Stoner felt that way and if the family is only making the claim after he was gone? I too find it hard to believe.

Looking at the article, I think the press is (shockingly!) twisting the family's words to suit their anti-gun agenda. The exact words were: "Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47," Stoner's family told NBC News Wednesday. "He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events."

 

[WheatNuts]

They've gotta keep pushing hard, they only have about 22 months before the mid-terms will impact their power (God willing)...

I hate to be pessimistic, but I've completely lost faith in elections in this country. I'm sure there will be plenty more burst pipes and 4 am ballot dumps to prevent Republicans from ever winning again.

 

[shooter777]

^^^^Most Repubs these days are basically Progressives. Conservatives haven't conserved much of the Republic imho

 

[PiratePast40]

It's the 80% lower paper weight with no SN# that they are after, the one it is perfectly legal for you to have and to finish into what ever you want, even a working firearm!

That's what I initially thought, but they are pushing the narrative for components as well. The line is that a completed firearm from a manufacturer is test fired and the bullet sent to ATF for records and to tie it to a certain serial number. The thinking is that no such tracing exists for a gun made with individual components, e.g., a test bullet for an aftermarket barrel does not get sent to ATF, therefore, it's a "ghost gun". I was shocked to see the exact reference used in an episode of NCIS.

 

[STONER_63]

Doing a little more reading, I came across this article and it scared the crap out of me. OK, turning off the internet for the evening and switching to bourbon ...

 

[FireArm]

this alphabet soup gang needs dumped in the trash, its spoiled..

 

[deadeye]

well we'll just call em undocumented instead and all will be good..........

 

[bentoncity]

This is where I get confused. I bought an AR lower awhile ago, and it has a unique serial # on it. How is that considered 'undetectable?'

In simple terms, it's NOT UNDETECTABLE! That aspect, undetectable, comes from the premise that people could/would use a 3d printer to mfg a pistol lower, or 'possibly' an AR lower that has NO METAL in it.

80% lowers in pistols, in the "legal market", already have the required amount of detectable metal in them by law.
80% lowers in AR weapons are already metal but are NOT a legal firearm component per se as they can not be used nor are a component that can function as part of a weapon until the mfg process is complete. The exception being the 80% lower "could" be used as a club! And in truth, that's it's worth IMHO... an expensive baseball bat..

80% AR lowers (rifle) require machining & drilling to make them operational. They ARE HOWEVER, untraceable because they have no serial numbers. As in an ffl backgroud check you went through in purchasing your lower.
There's an upside & a downside to an 80% lower, at least in Wa. State, (pistol/rifle) you can't legally sell the lowers UNLESS they have an approved ffl # on them. Good luck with that..
The upside? is a non-existent firearm in so far as the law is aware.

In reality, there's probably hundreds of thousands or even millions of 80% builds out there. Not necessarily because individuals are trying to bypass any laws but because people want to build their own custom weapons. Towards that end, I applaud those individuals!
There is satisfaction in building your own custom whatever..

Dan

 

[ob1]

Doesn't know who they are but has 200 of them on ignore. Makes sense...

OH....I think most of us know what they are, even if we don't know them by name.

 

[Paolung]

A "progressive" acquaintance (with a serious gun collection) told me a long time ago that he would be fine with giving up his guns, in return for "a little social justice in this country".

Unfortunately, these types are often the most dangerous of all, because they'll enable the vocal leftist "progressives" to implement their radical agenda, and they won't realize that it's too late until they're lined up against the wall and shot with the guns they gave up for "social justice"