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Here's a relevant observation by SteyrAUG over at M4C:
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So I think pistol braces are stupid, but that doesn't mean I support ATF efforts to criminalize them. I do think people should have seen this coming and possibly set the stage, but that doesn't mean I support ATF efforts to criminalize them.

But more importantly, and what I've said all along, is that it's sad that people pay attention to this gomer bubblegum when way more important issues have existed all along since 1968 and in a painful irony are the issues that allow ATF to make these "in the tail on the donkey" determinations in the first place.

People are bemoaning that only 100,000 gun owners posted their opposition to ATFs gun brace determination. If we could get 100,000 gun owners to understand what the "sporter clause" is and oppose that...we wouldn't be dealing with 90% of this crap.

Get rid of the sporter clause and:

Arms braces...it doesn't matter. There is no qualifier for acceptability of a firearm in any configuration.

80% receivers...it wouldn't matter. It's not even a part and ATF wouldn't have the ability to make blanket determinations.

Declaring uppers to be a firearm, binary triggers, etc. All that crap goes out the window. ATF has no magic wand to wave around and turn apples into oldsmobiles.

But probably fewer than 5% of all gun owners understand that the "sporter clause" is even there let alone how it works so we are left with "Hands off my arm brace handgun!!
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As Steyr notes, we need to find people who understand the arcana of ATF and strike at the Sporting Purposes Clause of the 1968 Gun Control Act. We pull that pin and the whole mess falls apart all by itself.
 
The Shockwave original designs are coming back into vogue--I still have a couple I set aside when they were half this price minus the tube


 
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Absolutely true, it doesn't cover personal property but if folks resit enough and loud enough the government will either pay or get voted out in a legal election. Once the public loudly calls them thieves it changes who has the upper hand.

Make them buy back until they run out of money.
So the government buys back with our tax dollars and then raises taxes... Just saying
 
So the government buys back with our tax dollars and then raises taxes... Just saying
State government can't afford a buy back so it won't happen. Deal is we must demand they buy anything they ban.

Feds can print up as much as they want but can't put the bureaucracy together it takes to buy everything.

Taxes will always go up.
 
So the government buys back with our tax dollars and then raises taxes... Just saying
It has to be repeated so we don't buy into slogans. You cannot buy back what you never owned. These tax paid programs have been going on for decades like generational welfare. It's free money to the people running the program but we keep paying for it and the problem never goes away.

40 years ago Skid Row was a few blocks in downtown LA. Now it's square miles and lawless. Maybe it's just one government program away from success. Removing a few crappy guns could potentially save a life. Incarceraring known criminals who use these guns will definitely save lives.
 
Starting off with is there anyone here who doesn't think pistol braces are going to be ruled to be stocks by the ATF in a few weeks? The administration has flat out declared their intention to do so, it's in the federal record, the bogus comment period is almost over and the ATF NFA branch has greatly expanded it's staffing in the last few weeks. Form 1s are running 3 weeks these days. It's going to happen. I bring this up frequently on other forums when someone asks what pistol brace to buy . "Just wait a few weeks before you buy one. It's going to be trash" . Man, people get bent out of shape. I get called every name my ex wife couldn't think of. Might as well put a buttstock on the thing if you are going to put something on the back. Legal or not
. Same thing. Why pay for a pistol brace at this juncture?

What do you think?
 
Might as well put a buttstock on the thing if you are going to put something on the back. Legal or not
. Same thing. Why pay for a pistol brace at this juncture?

What do you think?
I agree. If I have to pay for it I'm not putting some flimsy rubber POS that looks like an orthopedic brace on my gun.

Time for the Krinkov!
 
Hopefully GOA or some group will be able to take it to court. Previous ATF findings should be able to "shoot" it down, in their own words. Of course, it would take looking at life in reasonable times.

All these new laws do nothing but create felons. Many laws seem to create penalties worse than flat out owning an illegal machine gun. They wanted up to life in prison for Bump stocks. A MG is no more than 20 yrs. Many other gun charges get plea bargained down to almost nothing. Accept the assault and we'll drop the gun charge. Tell on someone and we'll drop the gun charge.

What happens when your only charge is a gun violation? You do the time. My only solution is to pick PNW politicians from our community. Picking from a group of preselected losers hasn't been working.
 
Starting off with is there anyone here who doesn't think pistol braces are going to be ruled to be stocks by the ATF in a few weeks? The administration has flat out declared their intention to do so, it's in the federal record, the bogus comment period is almost over and the ATF NFA branch has greatly expanded it's staffing in the last few weeks. Form 1s are running 3 weeks these days. It's going to happen. I bring this up frequently on other forums when someone asks what pistol brace to buy . "Just wait a few weeks before you buy one. It's going to be trash" . Man, people get bent out of shape. I get called every name my ex wife couldn't think of. Might as well put a buttstock on the thing if you are going to put something on the back. Legal or not
. Same thing. Why pay for a pistol brace at this juncture?

What do you think?
I think u are right for the most part. Some things to consider though:

1) some pistol configurations can take a brace but not a stock. The reason being that Manufacturers made braces for Glocks and many other weapons (uzi I think Fe) due to the popularity of braces. Now will the manufacturers make stocks in the future for the more limited sbr market? I hope so, but for now braces are all there is for some guns.

2) I would not consider braces "trash" after proposed regs are passed (if they r passed) at all. The reason being that if u were to make a sbr and you already have a brace or can pick one up dirt cheap, it can be used on the sbr.

3) one big benefit of braces today (ie when they r legal) is financial because u can use on multiple guns without having to sbr them. nothing wrong with sbr but it costs $200 plus fingerprints and hassle but more importantly the gun is more difficult to sell in the future. You have to sell to someone willing to buy a new stamp at $200 and also wait the 6 months? Or so to recieve the gun. Many people don't want to pay for the gun and wait to pick it up 6 months later unless it's from someone they trust such as a known dealer. Individual sales that is harder to do because what if something happens in that 6 months, will the seller follow through, etc.

Re buying one brace for multiple guns, Fe I can have one brace which takes around 1 minute to move from one gun to another. So I only have to buy the one brace and none of the guns I put it on have to be sbr. That means I can sell the pistol in the future as just a regular pistol if I want to do a person to person sale (via ffl in wa or Or of course) with no extra waiting time and no need for buyer to spend an additional $200 for the stamp.

That brings up a question I have relating to changing stocks on sbrs that you might know about: after a pistol becomes an sbr, can you put anything u want on it such as a different stock, barrel, etc or does it have to stay with the original parts it had when made an sbr? Or does it just have to stay in the same configuration (Fe barrel length) that it was in when made an sbr? Or does it not matter? I guess I'm thinking about suppressors where it is my understanding that u can't modify it once made and form1 is done (correct me if I'm wrong please). Thx!

4) lastly atf may reverse their position in future if they are banned (I wouldn't count on it though!).
 
What happens? I've known a few people who have gone to jail on NFA violations. All for machine guns . One had other stuff too like SBRs , grenade launchers etc. Knew them personally. One was a good friend. All just had NFA violations. Two guys did one year, one guy did two and one did eight.
 
That brings up a question I have relating to changing stocks on sbrs that you might know about: after a pistol becomes an sbr, can you put anything u want on it such as a different stock, barrel, etc or does it have to stay with the original parts it had when made an sbr? Or does it just have to stay in the same configuration (Fe barrel length) that it was in when made an sbr? Or does it not matter? I guess I'm thinking about suppressors where it is my understanding that u can't modify it once made and form1 is done (correct me if I'm wrong please). Thx!

4) lastly atf may reverse their position in future if they are banned (I wouldn't count on it though!).

You can configure an SBR any way you want. And no, once that hammer comes down that's going to be it. They are basically just correcting a mistake they made before. Don't expect them to admit to another mistake. That's not .govs M.O.
 
You can configure an SBR any way you want. And no, once that hammer comes down that's going to be it. They are basically just correcting a mistake they made before. Don't expect them to admit to another mistake. That's not .govs M.O.
That's very cool on the sbrs being able to use whatever configuration. That's encouraging. Makes me think that some of the braces might be even more attractive right now for that reason. What I mean is if u have a long barrel Glock or other oddball gun you want to shoot with a stock/brace, there are tons of options u can buy today that u can put on the gun later if u sbr it. But if u don't buy those now, they will be off the market once they r banned. So if you didn't buy the brace now and later on you want to sbr it so that it could take a stock, there may not the same options available to buy.
 
i think pistol braces are almost always used as shouldering devices by the masses and I'm not surprised by this at all.
 
That's very cool on the sbrs being able to use whatever configuration. That's encouraging. Makes me think that some of the braces might be even more attractive right now for that reason. What I mean is if u have a long barrel Glock or other oddball gun you want to shoot with a stock/brace, there are tons of options u can buy today that u can put on the gun later if u sbr it. But if u don't buy those now, they will be off the market once they r banned. So if you didn't buy the brace now and later on you want to sbr it so that it could take a stock, there may not the same options available to buy.
I can't think of any brace I'd want over a real stock.
 

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