ATF change requirements for ar-/ak braces?

[oa98pistol512]

I just read a article on a CHANGE in length requirements for pistol braces. Does anyone have exact specs on what is/will be ? From what I gather if it does not fit length requirements it will be a AOW

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[The Heretic]

There is another thread:

National - New Felony: ATF now forcing federal of popular short rifles

New felony: ATF now forcing federal registration of popular short rifles

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[oa98pistol512]

Wow that is confusing as heck..So a pistol must be under 26 inches from buffer tube to muzzle device correct ? AND if it is under said 26in a pistol brace is ok ? I am going by a very confusing letter form the atf dated june 25th 2019

 

[The Heretic]

No.

A pistol doesn't become a rifle by making it longer than 26". There are pistols out there that are 26" or longer. There are pistols out there with barrels longer than 16".

You have to add a shoulder stock to make a pistol into a rifle, at which point, if the barrel is shorter than 16 inches, then it is an SBR requiring a tax stamp. If the barrel is 16" or longer then the firearm is a rifle as defined under the GCA and not an NFA covered firearm.

If you add a vertical forward grip to any pistol, that pistol becomes an AOW requiring a tax stamp. You can add a forward grip to a rifle with a barrel longer than 16" and OAL of 26"+ without it falling into into the AOW category.

The NFA has definitions covering these issues, and the ATF has rulings on them and there are court precedents.

Also, you can go back and forth between pistol and rifle configuration if the firearm was initially manufactured and assembled as a pistol. The ATF fought this in court in the 80s and lost.

The reasoning of the ATF on the braces is that they are "accessories" not necessary to the functioning or intended purpose of a pistol, so counting them as part of the overall length when folded doesn't make sense in their opinion, especially when the firearm can function with the brace in the folded position. Additionally, if the brace can be collapsed (i.e., pushed forward on the brace extension, in the case of an AR, the buffer tube), and the firearm can still function in the collapsed position, then that is the position that should be used for OAL measurements.

Similar reasoning is used for muzzle brakes and flash hiders on rifles; if it can be removed easily, then it doesn't count toward OAL or barrel length. That is why the brake or hider would need to be pinned & soldered or welded to the barrel if the barrel itself was shorter than 16".

 

[The Heretic]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download

 

[The Heretic]

Can I lawfully make a pistol into a rifle without registering that firearm? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Assuming that the firearm was originally a pistol, the resulting firearm, with an attached shoulder stock, is not an NFA firearm if it has a barrel of 16 inches or more in length. Pursuant to ATF Ruling 2011-4, such rifle may later be unassembled and again configured as a pistol. Such...

www.atf.gov

Can I lawfully make a pistol into a rifle without registering that firearm?
Assuming that the firearm was originally a pistol, the resulting firearm, with an attached shoulder stock, is not an NFA firearm if it has a barrel of 16 inches or more in length. Pursuant to ATF Ruling 2011-4, such rifle may later be unassembled and again configured as a pistol. Such configuration would not be considered a "weapon made from a rifle" as defined by 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(4).
[26 U.S.C. § 5845, 27 C.F.R. § 479.11; ATF Ruling 2011-4]

I added the italics as emphasis.

 

[The Heretic]

Am I required to register my pistol if I want to put a vertical fore grip on it? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The firearm must be registered because such a firearm constitutes “any other weapon” (AOW) as defined in the National Firearms Act (NFA) at 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e). To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must submit an ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm along...

www.atf.gov

Am I required to register my pistol if I want to put a vertical fore grip on it?
The firearm must be registered because such a firearm constitutes "any other weapon" (AOW) as defined in the NFA at 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e). To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must submit an ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant's fingerprints, a photograph, and $200.00 making tax. An applicant's ATF Form 1 will be approved if the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and the applicant's possession of AOW is not prohibited in the applicant's State of residence. An applicant may only add a vertical fore grip to the handgun designated on his/her Form 1 only after the applicant's Form 1 is approved by ATF.
[26 U.S.C. § 5845(e)]

 

[The Heretic]

An AR pistol remains an AR pistol until you put a shoulder stock on it, regardless of barrel length or OAL.

27 CFR § 479.11 - Meaning of terms.

www.law.cornell.edu

Pistol. A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

No mention is made of barrel length or OAL.

Bold emphasis added by me.

also:

https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

 

[ob1]

Am I required to register my pistol if I want to put a vertical fore grip on it? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

The firearm must be registered because such a firearm constitutes “any other weapon” (AOW) as defined in the National Firearms Act (NFA) at 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e). To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must submit an ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm along...

www.atf.gov

Am I required to register my pistol if I want to put a vertical fore grip on it?
The firearm must be registered because such a firearm constitutes "any other weapon" (AOW) as defined in the NFA at 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e). To lawfully add a vertical fore grip to a handgun, a person must submit an ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm along with a fingerprint card bearing the applicant's fingerprints, a photograph, and $200.00 making tax. An applicant's ATF Form 1 will be approved if the applicant is not prohibited from possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law, and the applicant's possession of AOW is not prohibited in the applicant's State of residence. An applicant may only add a vertical fore grip to the handgun designated on his/her Form 1 only after the applicant's Form 1 is approved by ATF.
[26 U.S.C. § 5845(e)]

Wuh What ? What happened to the $5 AOW tax...have I been asleep ?

 

[The Heretic]

Wuh What ? What happened to the $5 AOW tax...have I been asleep ?

I don't know which is which with regards to cost and AOW, etc., never having had applied for one, but that is a link to the ATF site so I think they know how much it costs - unless it is a typo.

The cost is irrelevant to the topic; what is a pistol, what is a rifle, what is an AOW, how does barrel length, OAL, a 'brace' and a shoulder stock affect the classification of the firearm with regards to the GCA and NFA?

 

[The Heretic]

Here - read this:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-may2006-open-letter-adding-vertical-fore-grip-handgun/download

It covers the $5 vs $200 issue - last two paragraphs.

 

[The Heretic]

Mods - this should probably be moved to the NFA forum?

 

[ob1]

Well the link above sort of dances around the concept of an original pistol receiving a removable fore-grip, but not a shoulder stock. It was my understanding that configuration becomes an AOW with a $5 stamp...unless the cost of those stamps has been jacked up recently.

 

[ob1]

Here - read this:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/open-letter/all-ffls-may2006-open-letter-adding-vertical-fore-grip-handgun/download

It covers the $5 vs $200 issue - last two paragraphs.

Ah.. so the Class 8 Manufacturer has to slip the grip onto the existing rail and then process the paperwork as usual. Two different amounts to do essentially the same thing, except that strenuous job of sliding it on the rail ...sheesh.

Thanks Heretic.

 

[The Heretic]

Well the link above sort of dances around the concept of an original pistol receiving a removable fore-grip, but not a shoulder stock. It was my understanding that configuration becomes an AOW with a $5 stamp...unless the cost of those stamps has been jacked up recently.

apparently the cost depends on who does the mode/manufacturing

 

[CountryGent]

Mods - this should probably be moved to the NFA forum?

Done.

 

[Tomahawk67]

The only change here was in the method of measurement. If your OAL is 26+ inches from end of fixed pistol receiver extension to muzzle thread end or muzzle device if pinned/welded , the firearm can be used with a VFG. If you have a folder , the OAL is taken in the folded position.

 

[The Heretic]

ATF: Some Black Aces Tactical Guns Are Unregistered NFA Weapons

An ominous ATF letter has surfaced indicating that some Black Aces Tactical Pro Series firearms may in fact fall under the National Firearms Act (NFA) law.

www.recoilweb.com

 

[Tomahawk67]

ATF: Some Black Aces Tactical Guns Are Unregistered NFA Weapons

An ominous ATF letter has surfaced indicating that some Black Aces Tactical Pro Series firearms may in fact fall under the National Firearms Act (NFA) law.

www.recoilweb.com

If you run a folding or collapsible brace , don't run a vfg. If you have a fixed receiver extension and OAL is greater than 26" , you can. Vltor A5 pistol tube and 11.5" barrel satisfy this.

 

[The Heretic]

If you run a folding or collapsible brace , don't run a vfg. If you have a fixed receiver extension and OAL is greater than 26" , you can. Vltor A5 pistol tube and 11.5" barrel satisfy this.

If the OAL with the brace folded/collapsed is 26"+ you are fine.