...Asked to leave Vancouver mall while CC

[Gunner3456]

Nope... Oregon has no restriction on carrying in govt. offices.. At least for CHL holders...

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

What about Federal offices including the Post Office? What about a courthouse?

Sent from my desktop using a standard keyboard.

 

[Artilleryman]

Going back to teh OP comments:
Concealed carry means you are requireed to conceal at all times -

Hmm...don't think I quite agree with that- as far as I know 'concealed' is not a requirement at all; certainly not in oregon anyway as open carry is well known to be legal. I strongly suspect o.c. is allowed in washington as well. Either way, there is no requirement as you say. I do generally preferred cc however but have nothing against the oc folks as I believe the public does need to be educated to that fact that YES, good people do own and carry firearms despite the social engineering of recent years guiding their beliefs in the opposite direction.

 

[Artilleryman]

ya slipped up and got caught.

nope, quite wrong. no 'slipping up' or getting 'caught' involved. To repeat: I observed the entrance for the required sign; it was not present. Had it been, I would have either not entered or secured the weapon prior to doing so. My intentions were to obey both the law and the rights on the property owner(s). The error was on their part for not posting the necessary information. And I have no issue with the security staff as they were courteous and professional. I even have a good measure of respect for the kiddo who approached me on the subject- he was clearly frightened but still did his job, and in a professional manner. He definitely earned a HUA for that. My issue with the situation is: 1. General aggravation at the owner's lack of intelligence, patriotism, common decency, etc, etc for choosing to have such a policy, and 2. The inconvenience of having my schedule disrupted since my free time for such things as furniture shopping is extremely limited. I put in 50 - 60 hours a week at the office, not counting all the after hours time I put in dealing with work related issues. Leisure time is in short supply. However the irony of the situation is that policies of the establishment in question are rather self defeating: Hardworking individuals such as myself with dollars to spend are obviously not the target demographic of that 'fine' retail establishment while the skateboard crowd apparently is. Doesn't sound like the best business model. Not to mention the fact that a well armed & trained Army Vet onsite would be far more beneficial in the event of some nutcase going ballistic in the mall than the unarmed security staff currently present.

 

[coctailer]

If you carry concealed long enough, you will be spotted. Period.

 

[toywin12]

As legally armed citizens, CC and OC, the onus is on us. If we don't research, understand, and CARE about the legalities of carrying a gun, then what separates us from the thug or gangbanger illegally carrying...other than intent? We NEED to be as educated and well versed in the law, personal rights, and private property rights as we possibly can, because we have made the deliberate decision to set ourselves apart from the general public. To them, ignorance is bliss...to us, ignorance could mean anything from hiding in a clothes rack while some idiot shoots up the mall to getting "proned out" by LE with a gun drawn on us, jail time, loss of gun rights, etc.. As far as the OP, +1 for the due diligence at the door...-1 for getting careless while concealing. The fact is, it's privately owned property...sign or not you cannot assume there is no firearms restriction in their policy. When it's not against the law, but you don't know what the "property policy" is...you roll the dice and stay concealed and leave if asked to by management. Do I think it's wrong that such policies exist? It's downright unAmerican and illogical, but it's still their right as we have ours. Options if you don't agree with it: don't shop there, write a letter, make a phone call, do something to try and effect change to further gun rights and create awareness. +1 on maintaining your composure. By that count, you're still +1...carry on.

 

[tlfreek]

Has anybody ever heard of a business being sued because of a CHL holder on their premesis that shot somebody? I'm being serious...has ever a case existed that anybody knows of?

I keep hearing that argument but I don't think it holds any water. I don't doubt that some litigious dingbat WOULD sue, just wondered there is any precedent.

no quite shot, but close.

some guy CHL holder was waiting in line at a store when a couple guys came in and grabbed a few pieces of merchandise (from the store) and ran out of the store. The CC guy ran after them out of the store, got his weapon and emptied the clip. missed everything. Holstered his weapon and came back in the store and got back in line.

if you want more specifics ping Threat Dynamics - it was the example they used in our class.

 

[tlfreek]

But I bet you break out in a cold sweat when the family next door comes home with a case of Keystone Light and a box of bottle rockets!

I do - especially when they land on my roof, my car, my backyard, my driveway, my lawn.

 

[Scott]

All this talk of banning companies that don't allow conceal carry because they will pay out the 2 cheeks if something were to happen.

Who bans the Portland gun shows? You cannot carry there and they ziptie your gun. So who bans thems? I see a lot of familiar names who go and then say f businesses that don't allow CC.

Just seems a litte strange and a oxymoron. You can't have both ways either ban or don't.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

no quite shot, but close.

some guy CHL holder was waiting in line at a store when a couple guys came in and grabbed a few pieces of merchandise (from the store) and ran out of the store. The CC guy ran after them out of the store, got his weapon and emptied the clip. missed everything. Holstered his weapon and came back in the store and got back in line.

if you want more specifics ping Threat Dynamics - it was the example they used in our class.

LOL

 

[Chipperxd]

All this talk of banning companies that don't allow conceal carry because they will pay out the 2 cheeks if something were to happen.

Who bans the Portland gun shows? You cannot carry there and they ziptie your gun. So who bans thems? I see a lot of familiar names who go and then say f businesses that don't allow CC.

Just seems a litte strange and a oxymoron. You can't have both ways either ban or don't.

this X10000000000000000

as for those trying to argue that it does not have to be concealed must be kidding. unless you live in the boonies where you don't get hassled for open carry, you should know better. no matter what OP says, he slipped up by exposing his gun. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I'm sure all business are chomping at the bits at only servicing a small percentage of the population that carry over the general public.

 

[m1gunr]

I did tell him there was no sign stating that policy as is required.

Cite the RCW on this.... You can't as there is none. There is no requirement to post entrances, signs carry no weight of law in Washington. If asked to leave and you don't they will have you trespassed.

If you carry concealed long enough, you will be spotted. Period.

Yep, the large shirts, vests, jackets(in the wrong weather), fanny packs. You don't don't realize that you carry yourself in a manner that I and many others can spot you EVERY time. You guys that walk with only one arm swinging or it's 10 degrees outside and yet your coat is unbuttoned. DEAD GIVEAWAYS. And yet you talk about how the Open Carry guys will be the first shot in a situation....

 

[deen_ad]

Cite the RCW on this.... You can't as there is none. There is no requirement to post entrances, signs carry no weight of law in Washington. If asked to leave and you don't they will have you trespassed.



Yep, the large shirts, vests, jackets(in the wrong weather), fanny packs. You don't don't realize that you carry yourself in a manner that I and many others can spot you EVERY time. You guys that walk with only one arm swinging or it's 10 degrees outside and yet your coat is unbuttoned. DEAD GIVEAWAYS. And yet you talk about how the Open Carry guys will be the first shot in a situation....

You have to be made aware of their policy, unless they ask everybody coming in then the best way is a sign. If you're not notified first then they can't charge you with trespassing, just like posting your property "No Trespassing". You can't charge someone with trespassing on your property without signs to let them know.

 

[Chipperxd]

huh? so it's legal for me to walk on to someone's home and set up shop because there is no sign posted?

 

[Artilleryman]

Cite the RCW on this.... You can't as there is none. There is no requirement to post entrances, signs carry no weight of law in Washington. If asked to leave and you don't they will have you trespassed.

...

pffft.....cite anything you want m1 but I'm not here to play internet lawyer, just passing along the facts of what occurred. Could be my statement to the guy was in error but as I indicated in a previous post I indicated I'm no guru on Wa laws (or any for that matter). If you've got a problem with something stated you might wanna take a different tactic- I realize its quite common on here and other boards for guys to constantly go back & forth spouting minutiae of laws & regulations at each other but again, I'm not here to get into a pp measuring contest over who can copy & paste the most obscure legal text. Just say something like "hey, your statement to the guard wasn't quite accurate- here's the clarification on that.." I think you should be able to refine the important points: vanc mall = not big fans of armed citizens & no signs / notices stating such, & will receive no more of my business as a result, but security staff appears to be courteous & behaves in a professional manner. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[fire at will]

I have been to the mall many times and I have NEVER seen any signs about carrying a firearm there. Good thing they have the Police acadamy drop outs standing guard. Hope their mag light is loaded with hollow points when sh*! goes down. Just my opinion!!

 

[m1gunr]

yeah I could have said it that way and probably got the same response from you. I understand not everyone is up on the laws as I am but we have far too many people saying things that aren't law or anywhere near correct. Then the next thing you know that info gets passed along to others who passes it along to others. IMHO there should be NO gray areas in gun laws only black & white. If you're gonna post a statement for guns it should be correct.

No mall in Washington state allows CC or OC. I know this because 90% of them are owned by the same parent company.

 

[Artilleryman]

yeah I could have said it that way and probably got the same response from you. .

untrue....if you could've addressed it in a slightly less annoying manner my response would certainly have been different. I realize some folks seem to thrive on their internet arguements but as previously stated, I'm just here to detail the situation as it occurred....I'll leave all the armchair lawyer action to those who enjoy it & have the leisure time available to pursue it

 

[Scott]

You have to be made aware of their policy, unless they ask everybody coming in then the best way is a sign. If you're not notified first then they can't charge you with trespassing, just like posting your property "No Trespassing". You can't charge someone with trespassing on your property without signs to let them know.

In the state of WA you do not have to post any signs anywhere on your property. You are suppose to know where you are at period. It is not the property owners responsibility to make you arware. Like I said you are suppose to know where you are at and tresspassing is illegal.

Read the laws. One quick place you can find it and its easy to see is WA hunting regs.

 

[deen_ad]

In the state of WA you do not have to post any signs anywhere on your property. You are suppose to know where you are at period. It is not the property owners responsibility to make you aware. Like I said you are suppose to know where you are at and trespassing is illegal.

Read the laws. One quick place you can find it and its easy to see is WA hunting regs.

Maybe for hunting but not normal property use. Anyone can come onto your private property, unless it's posted or you notify the person(s) they are trespassing AND they refuse to leave you can't do a thing about it.

 

[deen_ad]

huh? so it's legal for me to walk on to someone's home and set up shop because there is no sign posted?

Totally different scenario: your home is private property with no public access, the mall is private property with public access. BIG difference.