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Army wants to buy Special Operations Glock 19s

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by erudne, Mar 24, 2016.

  1. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    Army wants to buy Special Operations Glock 19s
    The Army’s top general is so frustrated with the Pentagon’s expensive, time-consuming gear buying rules that he’s pushing to abandon the search for a new multi-service handgun and go with a pistol that’s already issued to America’s commandos.

    According to Military.com, Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley has quietly asked his staff whether he can piggyback onto a contract issued by Green Berets and Rangers to purchase Glock 19s for his force and bypass the lengthy and expensive Modular Handgun System program slated to cost upwards of $350 million, with a $17 million testing phase that lasts years.

    “The testing itself is two years long on known technology,” Milley told law makers at a March 16 House Armed Services Committee hearing. “We are not talking about nuclear subs or going to the moon here. We are talking about a pistol.”

    In August, the Army launched its XM17 Modular Handgun System program to replace the 1980s-era Beretta M9. Several companies, including Smith & Wesson and Beretta are participating in the program to provide a handgun that can fit a wide range of shooters and deliver more “stopping power” than the current M9 chambered in 9mm.

    The other services have said they will piggyback onto the MHS program once a pistol is found to replace their inventory of aging M9s.

    But critics argue that modern 9mm ammunition — especially hollow points and other advanced designs — are just as effective as higher-caliber rounds when factors like recoil and magazine capacity are included. And as Milley points out, the handgun is often a last ditch weapon that shouldn’t require years of research to design.

    “We are not exactly redesigning how to go to the moon, right?” Miller during a defense conference in Washington. “This is a pistol. … And arguably, it is the least lethal and important weapon system in the Department of Defense inventory.”

    Since 2008, all Army Special Forces, Rangers and Air Force Special Tactics troops have been issued the 4-inch barreled Glock 19 as their standard sidearm. Recently, Marine Corps special operations forces have been given the option to run G19s instead of their Colt 1911s and the SEALs are moving toward ditching the Sig Sauer P226 in favor of the G19.

    Service documents show the Army also issues the Glock 26 to its operators for concealed carry missions.

    “Let me figure out what type of pistol we need and let me go buy it without having to go through nine years of incredible scrutiny,” Milley said, according to Military.com. “You give me $17 million on the credit card, I’ll call Cabelas tonight, and I’ll outfit every soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine with a pistol and I’ll get a discount on it for bulk buys.”
     
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  2. waglockfan

    waglockfan Puget Sound Well-Known Member

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    What is this guy doing thinking he can go against the grain? All that taxpayer money has to line the pockets of all the companies that want to get in on the action.
     
  3. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    But, but, but.... What about baseline budgeting? :eek::rolleyes:
     
  4. CamoDeafie

    CamoDeafie Albany Well-Known Member

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    It's this kind of crap that got us the XM25/XM8, and the OICW and the stupid 10mm rocket launcher wrist thing on the "Future Warrior 2025" and not to mention the MBT-70 project and the M60A2/M551 Shillegah armament.
    Oh and let's not forget the whole Stryker thing. :rolleyes:

    Oh yeah, we also have that program called Joint Light Tactical Vehicle that have trucks that are supposed to meet and stay BELOW 15,639 pounds....... (not quite light if you ask me....) I mean really, 7-odd tons that can carry less than 2 tons? (3,500 lb payload) based on a semi truck chassis? Might as well as go for a tracked weapon carrier/APC/Monocoque Armored cars, kind of like the V150 Commando and Panhard VBLs?
    I'm sorry for going slightly off topic....

    The guy in the article has a good point. We should be focusing more on COTS equipment instead of wasting money on developing technology just for a frigging handgun. *I also think the whole trend of making new things that tries to do everything instead of developing mission oriented things that are already logically based on existing things is stupid*
     
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  5. ozmosis

    ozmosis vancouver Active Member

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    XM8 passed all its tests including the dust test. It may have looked funny but inside it was all performance, polygonal barrel at 12 inches gave same velocity of the 14.5 inch M4, clear magazine so you can see your rounds on hand and other things. Plus it handled better and it's controls thought out. And best of all, long stroke piston without direct gas to the chamber making it cooler than the M4. But that ship sailed in 2004/5 with the 6.8 special along with it.
    The XM8 in 6.8 spc would have served well. At one time there were a lot of good things in the works to improve Solders lethality at the individual level. Ten years later were still looking to replace the M9/M4 family of weapons. And ironically the M885A1 testing/issue cost more than switching over to 6.8spc without a huge improvement. But I'm retired so what do I know.
     
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  6. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I really wonder how the army acquisition apparatus came to be, they seem like a group of people who shouldn't be trusted with sharpened sticks much less actual weapons. I've been asked to get involved with government contracting in the past, and usually after about two days of research my answer is not just no, but hell no. A while ago, the army talked to the company I was working for, and expressed interest in one of their products. The first thing they did was ask for 40,000 rounds for testing with the option for an additional 100,000, we looked at each other, laughed our asses off, and walked out. If you want the best products, buy 'em, don't waste industry's time looking for handouts. Especially when what ends up happening is they go out, find something they like, and then turn it over to one of the big boys, like ATK to produce it in quantity and somehow screw the inventors of it.

    If the Army wants a new pistol, FN made a really good one to their specs, they should buy that, or glock, or whatever. I'm probably as tired of the acquisition chicanery as this general is. But as they say, not my circus, not my monkeys.
     
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  7. ozmosis

    ozmosis vancouver Active Member

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    Circus.
    The Clowns say "Big Silverback the M4 is jamming and not working. A National Guard unit got lost and we're wiped out because of weapon malfunction. We have to rescue one of them at a hospital and we look bad. You fix now."
    Big Silverback say "M4 fine, just clean it."
    The Clowns say "We said fix"
    Big Silverback say "I want new Airplane F35, rifle small but OK I look in to it."
    Testing in sues, items made and better rifle found with better bullet. Change test to prove otherwise but new rifle still better by 40% and new bullet better by 45%.
    Big Silverback says to Clowns "OK, marginal improvement"
    The Clowns say "Field new rifle, bullet and get back to us"
    Industry Monkey says "We have contract, we won't build it for less than double of M4"
    Industry Monkey says "We have contract, but it will take us a few months to convert machines to make bullets and 3 million rounds in time."
    Big Silverback says to Clowns "Overbudget and take to long. Now how about shiny airplane?"
    Clowns say "Ok, we looked like we try ed and we look good any way from last week's rescue. How about a helicopter airplane?"
    Big Silverback smiles and makes airplane noises.

    Fast forward eleven years to 2016.
    M4/M16 fielded in the 60's
    M9 fielded in the 80's
    5.56/.223 round not legal in many states to hunt deer with as its inhumane to wound animals and have them run off, varmint only.
    Tests still ongoing for better rifle/pistol/bullet.