ARMED TAKE OVER

[mjbskwim]

just the turd in the punchbowl

I just get my punch from the other side of the bowl
I good one to watch will be the gun rally in Austin Tx cause the pres will be in town that day

There are a great many people out there who are not for gun control, but will never understand the need for an AK47.

There are many guys I worked with that hunted and thought AKs and ARs were useless and didn't think most should own one. No explaining it ti them that taking any could mean taking all guns
They thought that was stupid talk

 

[PaulB47]

I've have never understood why gun owners would even think that bringing an AR or AK to a political rally is a good idea.

Yes, let's look down on people exercising their liberty. Can't have any of that...

The problem with your position, is that it essentially argues, "Why can't we be more like the British?" I'm all for being polite, not unnecessarily distressing others, reasonable decorum, etc. Most of the time, that is a good policy. But let's not forget where England ended up, in the gun control spectrum. They ended there because there were not enough people willing to ruffle feathers with a "HELL, NO!"

I'd like to see a demonstration of nice, well-dressed, respectful people - all of whom are carrying AR-15s. Of course the media will always search out the scruffiest, most surly individual, because that is what they do. Hell, half the time they probably supply that individual, if the cops don't do it. It's all a big game. Don't let it worry you too much.

 

[coastal steelheader]

I'd like to see a demonstration of nice, well-dressed, respectful people - all of whom are carrying AR-15s. Of course the media will always search out the scruffiest, most surly individual, because that is what they do..

The problem is that it is always those guys who show up at the rallies carrying their AR-15, so the media doesn't have to look too hard to pick them out. Others here have pointed that out as well.

 

[DuneHopper]

Part of the issues as well are the people who speak at these protest.
Our lobby here often looks like he just came outta the back woods and dressed about the same in hearings. I am not saying anything wrong with looking out doorsy. I do when its appropriate but when you are trying to show how professional we are well time and place. Also do we also need Elvis up there ?
( some know who I am talking about ) Now to each his own but I would rather see people dressing showing how smart we are, not how redneck we can be in public.
I swear some people I was near look like Armageddon was happening now.
I wore a Levis, Leather jacket that has a hoody ( didnt put up the hoody ) wore a nice hat
and had my CC under my jacket. Nothing special I looked neat and presentable.
To some you swear they thought it was a camp out and we wonder why people view us that way.
I know some who do not attend because of the people it draws in, and I can say I don't blame them. Just my two cents.

 

[PaulB47]

"The love of liberty has waned and the paradigm is shifted to the point where the vast majority of the population are conditioned that liberty is counter to safety and that government with it's control are preferred.

An example: How often do you hear in the news about 'anti-government' groups or persons? Has anyone stopped to consider our own U.S. Bill of Rights is in fact a 'anti-government' document?"

I don't agree with this. I think there is more liberty than when I was young, when you look at the big picture. Of course the rulers have a particular dislike of armed peasants so they do their best to trample that, but it is not working. How many people routinely carried guns in the 1950's, compared to the CHL crowd today? In your example, the government has always ranted about anti-government groups - example, Joe McCarthy. Look at all the Japanese Americans thrown in concentration camps for no reason.

 

[thorborg]

Wow, two pages and I haven't seen the answer to the original post. The inappropriateness of the AK at Burns and other protests has been hashed out a million times in as many threads. I for one agree, nonetheless I am interested in the opines to the original question which unfortunately did not narrow the field.
Forget the AK's, cannons, tanks and bull whips. Suppose we narrow the field to concealed carry only what then?
My opine: Unless it is an Insurrection, then yeah, it would be an armed takeover. but if it is a protest and most are doing their daily discrete carry thing then it would be unjust to stereotype the protesters as an "Armed Takeover" albeit the media would not have an issue in doing that.

 

[albin25]

I am not saying anything wrong with looking outdoorsy. I do when its appropriate but when you are trying to show how professional we are...well, time and place.

Spot on !
Part of being able to successfully get our point across, is not playing into the negative stereotypes they have about our community.
It escapes me how many seem able to grasp the concept of wearing the correct camo type/colors for the season or environment they will be hunting in, yet remain oblivious to the correct type of camo to wear when hunting for public support...and for crying out loud, leave the "Mall Ninja", "psycho mass killer", "swat wannabe", costumes at home...this is serious grownup business, not some Comicon Cosplay event! These events are for raising awareness, increasing support and acceptance, educating against stereotyping, and changing minds. They're not about appearing as a threat, re-enforcing negative views of gun rights and owners, or embarrassing our political allies.

Also, we need to discourage the ones that just can't seem to get the idea that it's also not the time or place for trying to "piggyback" their other "causes". Please, leave the "psalms # signs", "political slogans" etc...at home for the appropriate event.....Keep our message clear.

As for the question of whether AR's and AK's (or any other long gun for that matter) are "appropriate"... We're all familiar with that old saying,"don't bring a knife to a gunfight"... well how's about, "don't bring a rifle to a conversation".
If you really want to educate...set up some manned display tables so the uninformed can be shown the differences and similarities between various types of long and short arms.

Like it or not, today's PR reality is "perception is everything".

 

[DuneHopper]

Spot on !
Part of being able to successfully get our point across, is not playing into the negative stereotypes they have about our community.
It escapes me how many seem able to grasp the concept of wearing the correct camo type/colors for the season or environment they will be hunting in, yet remain oblivious to the correct type of camo to wear when hunting for public support...and for crying out loud, leave the "Mall Ninja", "psycho mass killer", "swat wannabe", costumes at home...this is serious grownup business, not some Comicon Cosplay event! These events are for raising awareness, increasing support and acceptance, educating against stereotyping, and changing minds. They're not about appearing as a threat, re-enforcing negative views of gun rights and owners, or embarrassing our political allies.

Also, we need to discourage the ones that just can't seem to get the idea that it's also not the time or place for trying to "piggyback" their other "causes". Please, leave the "psalms # signs", "political slogans" etc...at home for the appropriate event.....Keep our message clear.

As for the question of whether AR's and AK's (or any other long gun for that matter) are "appropriate"... We're all familiar with that old saying,"don't bring a knife to a gunfight"... well how's about, "don't bring a rifle to a conversation".
If you really want to educate...set up some manned display tables so the uninformed can be shown the differences and similarities between various types of long and short arms.

Like it or not, today's PR reality is "perception is everything".

Really like your response all very valid points, points I wish our Lobbys would bring up before Rally/ protests.

 

[erudne]

Keep in mind that the Media is Not your friend, since 2008 they have cropped photos and coddled Leftist infiltrators, shown themselves to be Cultural Marxist shills on every level. Americans on the whole have been turned into mindless, semi-literate individuals that are herded like cattle towards a chosen end. This demographic exists on "Feels". To be Butch in such a situation is to play right into box that has been laboriously built for you to inhabit. If you want to beat the Marxist Iron Triangle of school, media, state domination the only place left to go is to Judeo-Christian led protests and when the State turns it's fire hoses and attack dogs on you, you will know that you have won

 

[Martini_Up]

I don't agree with this. I think there is more liberty than when I was young, when you look at the big picture.

Of course the rulers have a particular dislike of armed peasants so they do their best to trample that, but it is not working.

How many people routinely carried guns in the 1950's, compared to the CHL crowd today?

In your example, the government has always ranted about anti-government groups - example, Joe McCarthy. Look at all the Japanese Americans thrown in concentration camps for no reason.

Do you have examples where we have gained liberty over the course of decades?

You mention CHL as if you have liberty. You miss my point altogether. CHL is not liberty, my friend. CHL is asking permission then paying for the PRIVILEGE to carry concealed.

I never said the red txt above. Kindly re-read what I wrote. My position is that 'anti-governemt' is tossed around in the media as a label to marginalize any group which a redress with government. Is it not true that our own BOR is in fact a anti-government document? If you stood on capital steps and screamed red faced as loud as you could the entire BOR you would be considered anti-government, I can guarantee you.

 

[Stomper]

since the first time hunting at about 4, I've always been taught muzzle down. Why? Better to shoot your foot than your head. Moreover, in the case one leaves the chamber the bullet will only travel a few inches before you know it's going into the ground. You really don't know where it is going with the muzzle up.

No argument with your logic, but loaded with muzzle down on an extensive hardball surface among crowds of people exponentially increases the chances of someone getting hit by ricocheet or spalling, whereas a falling bullet at terminal velocity hitting someone (as far as I figure) is way less likely, and better odds of surviving getting struck as well.

Out in the field in the dirt, I'm 100% on board with you.

Anywho... do as you will, just do it competently with consideration of others!

 

[DuneHopper]

No argument with your logic, but loaded with muzzle down on an extensive hardball surface among crowds of people exponentially increases the chances of someone getting hit by ricocheet or spalling, whereas a falling bullet at terminal velocity hitting someone (as far as I figure) is way less likely, and better odds of surviving getting struck as well.
Out in the field in the dirt, I'm 100% on board with you.
Anywho... do as you will, just do it competently with consideration of others!

No need just do what I do thru-out a rally/protest just continue to rack back the chamber and check if its loaded, you can tell at the look seen by bystanders just how proud they are of your due-diligence . It must be a good idea as those guys with in the Capital Building did it several times that day and got lots of looks and media attention,

 

[DeanfromOregon]

IMHO, if you MUST carry a long gun it should be slung (or cross slung) over your shoulder MUZZLE UP.

If that protocol is good enough for the military while carrying "in garrison", it OUGHT to be good enough for citizens during a demonstration.

Unless you're REALLY on a foot patrol with a high likelihood of enemy contact, walking around at the low-ready makes you look like a F-ing jerk-wannabe.

HAHA! This is why I left the last rally on the capitol steps. Constant femoral artery sweepage by tactically attired mall ninjas.

 

[DuneHopper]

HAHA! This is why I left the last rally on the capitol steps. Constant femoral artery sweepage by tactically attired mall ninjas.

But seriously if SHTF there guess who they are gonna go after first the tactical looking guys.
Not Jim in his Seahawks jacket CC, !

 

[DeanfromOregon]

Agreed! Mixing black nylon and Velcro in the wrong proportions will get you killed!

 

[Brutus57]

Do remember the Occupy folks were clandestinely supports and egged on by liberal politicians as well as lionized by much of the media. I am not for militancy but also think that being genteel with your custom BBQ rig isn't going to be overly persuasive either. Or if you must show that nice Kimber custom also carry your custom Weatherby in .375 as well. Go with two guns. Show them that as Americans you have the RTKABA. If you go armed at all the liberal MSM will paint you as militants. Nobody is dissing the New Black Panthers for carrying AKs at polling sites. AK, black rifle is just a firearm. It is the person behind it who matters. Don't brandish but don't be cowed. Always bring enough gun, even to a parade. I can't wait to retire and join these peaceful events. Now, without a skull mask it'd be my livelihood. And I still need my livelihood because an EBT card isn't yet honored in the ammo section of Cabela's. The trouble is the politicians keep playing on people's fear as a weapon to disarm all Americans. Be peaceable but be visible, too.
If we stand idly by then at the stroke of a governor's pen most of us will be felons because they decided the 2A is negotiable.
Brutus out

 

[CamoDeafie]

If we stand idly by then at the stroke of a governor's pen most of us will be felons because they decided the 2A is negotiable.
Brutus out

I think they did decide that the 2A is negotiable all the way back to 1934 or so thereabouts... What with the NFA act and then again with the GCA of 1968 and yet again with that one toxic amendment to the FOPA of 1986.... and once again with the AWB of 1994 which thankfully sunsetted.... but then come all these states with their own versions, some much more restrictive....

If one considers that the only Constitutional military that's allowed is that of the Navy, and not the Army or the Air Force, and that the original intent is that all able bodied men are to be able to beat off other nations armies with their own arms; and that when needed, the citizens are to be as well armed as the standing armies, regardless of the era, in order to prevent governmental abuses/tyranny....... then one could argue that concept died, and thus, the 2A as it stands, is neutered by all the various regulations.... and the same for the taxation without representation by the simple fact we have all these small taxes put into place.

 

[nammac]

You mention CHL as if you have liberty. You miss my point altogether. CHL is not liberty, my friend. CHL is asking permission then paying for the PRIVILEGE to carry concealed.

You are 100% correct and spot on with that statement. Paying fees and being approved for a chl transforms concealed carry from a right to a privilege.

The pro-gun lobby should be on the offense in each state and at the federal level to get this reversed and uniformly apply constitutional carry in all 50 states and all territories...

Otherwise, we're not really freemen, are we?? We're permitted men, full pun intended...

 

[MikeE]

Wow, two pages and I haven't seen the answer to the original post. The inappropriateness of the AK at Burns and other protests has been hashed out a million times in as many threads. I for one agree, nonetheless I am interested in the opines to the original question which unfortunately did not narrow the field.
Forget the AK's, cannons, tanks and bull whips. Suppose we narrow the field to concealed carry only what then?
My opine: Unless it is an Insurrection, then yeah, it would be an armed takeover. but if it is a protest and most are doing their daily discrete carry thing then it would be unjust to stereotype the protesters as an "Armed Takeover" albeit the media would not have an issue in doing that.

If you are legally protesting in the street, then being legally armed does not constitute an 'armed takeover'. If you break into some place, like a federal facility, occupy it, rifle through files, commandeer equipment, restrict public access, threaten to fight eviction, all the while being heavily armed, then HELL YES it's an armed takeover, as well as a huge escalation of the crimes committed by the fact of being armed.

 

[DuneHopper]

Agreed! Mixing black nylon and Velcro in the wrong proportions will get you killed!

Oh on a no fly list