Armed encounters, need statistics!

[darkminstrel]

I'm in a lively discussion with a gun-hater in another forum. I'm trying to show, through example and datum, that CCW is a handy tool to have in certain conflicts.

The person I'm debating with states that in all cases if you give up what the assailant is asking for that you'll come out safe. I know that in the past muggings weren't as fatal as they are now. Can anyone point me to statistics that show the incidince of fatality even after full compliance with the demands your attacker placed on you?

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[Trlsmn]

I'm in a lively discussion with a gun-hater in another forum. I'm trying to show, through example and datum, that CCW is a handy tool to have in certain conflicts.

The person I'm debating with states that in all cases if you give up what the assailant is asking for that you'll come out safe. I know that in the past muggings weren't as fatal as they are now. Can anyone point me to statistics that show the incidince of fatality even after full compliance with the demands your attacker placed on you?

You can gather the evidence from most of the Robbery Homicides committed daily, the problem is once the physical attack starts most people will make an attempt to fight back meaning most all robbery homicides committed fall under the category of unpreventable with compliance, a concealed weapon would have at least given the victims a chance.

I'm quite sure this person, like most gun haters, could be shown the truth and still would disagree, so good luck winning that argument.

Look through any issues of American Rifleman "The armed citizen" column for people that were able to stop the dirt bags because they were armed.

 

[darkminstrel]

You can gather the evidence from most of the Robbery Homicides committed daily, the problem is once the physical attack starts most people will make an attempt to fight back meaning most all robbery homicides committed fall under the category of unpreventable with compliance, a concealed weapon would have at least given the victims a chance.

I'm quite sure this person, like most gun haters, could be shown the truth and still would disagree, so good luck winning that argument.

Look through any issues of American Rifleman "The armed citizen" column for people that were able to stop the dirt bags because they were armed.

I'm specifically looking for the circumstance where attacker draws weapon and demands x(wallet, car, jewelry), victim complies, attacker then shoots without provocation.

We see those situations in the news frequently. There has to be a bunch of numbers that compare this to where the attacker was faced with an armed response.

 

[Gunner3456]

I don't know how to find those statistics. I get my beliefs from another direction.

For instance. Do you believe that the outcome(s) would have been different on those airplanes on 9/11 if the majority of the passengers had been armed? Do you believe the the cry "Let's Roll" over Pennsylvania on 9/11 would have had a different meaning and outcome?

If I were going to research, I'd do so by city or nation. I've read in the past that in big cities which have the tightest gun control, the violent gun crime rates are the highest. I'm thinking Chicago and DC for starters. I've read that in big cities where getting a CCW has gotten easier, the crime rates have fallen.

I've read that in countries where there have been gun bans, violent crime rates have risen. I'm thinking Britain and Australia.

Good luck. Maybe someone knows some specifics for you.

 

[Gunner3456]

PS In my vast experience, you can't tell someone who operates from emotions anything when you're armed only with facts.

Good luck.

 

[capdek]

I'm in a lively discussion with a gun-hater in another forum. I'm trying to show, through example and datum, that CCW is a handy tool to have in certain conflicts.

The person I'm debating with states that in all cases if you give up what the assailant is asking for that you'll come out safe. I know that in the past muggings weren't as fatal as they are now. Can anyone point me to statistics that show the incidince of fatality even after full compliance with the demands your attacker placed on you?

I distinctly remember reading about a case back in Detroit, MI quite a few years ago where a university professor went to the Fox Theatre with his wife and another couple to see a show, and he was accosted outside the theatre by a man with a knife who demanded his wallet. The professor immediately gave his wallet to the thief, but the thief killed the professor anyway by stabbing him in the heart. It was pretty big news at the time. If you do a search in the Detroit papers you might find it in their archives. Something tangible and emotional like this might have an impact on this gun-hater. They generally respond well to emotional arguments.

 

[usmc0311]

I'm in a lively discussion with a gun-hater in another forum. I'm trying to show, through example and datum, that CCW is a handy tool to have in certain conflicts.

The person I'm debating with states that in all cases if you give up what the assailant is asking for that you'll come out safe. I know that in the past muggings weren't as fatal as they are now. Can anyone point me to statistics that show the incidince of fatality even after full compliance with the demands your attacker placed on you?

Sounds to me like the burden of proof is on him/her. Why should you run around collecting proof against an obviously foolish comment? It's a waste of time for you. If they are stating that pacifism will always save you from danger, then they need to be able to back that up, otherwise it's just rhetoric. It seems a pretty bold statement to me.

It's also interesting that they don't have a problem giving away all of their possessions just because someone tells them to. :huh: