The one thing that I like about the Bundy Ranch is that it proved that armed citizens make a difference. They were wrong but they proved a point. We can stand up to the Government and they will back down. Cliven Bundy is a thief and an opportunist but at the end of the day the people pushed back and won and thats important.
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Armed citizens kill more than all wars since 1775
- Thread Starter jackrv
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More control
First, Taku is not a simpleton, and calling folks names will get you in trouble on this site.
As to your claims. You say more shootings happen because there are more guns. And since gun ownership has been on the rise, we should expect to see a trend in more gun violence. But we don't. The number of guns has been on the rise for years now, with gun manufacturers reporting record sales in the last few years, so is gun violence on the rise as well (as you claim)?
Actually, no. It's not. Not even close. According to the Department of Justice, in a study that was put together under our anti-gun president, the DOJ found some stats that didn't make anti-gun folks very happy. The FACT is that firearm violence from 1993 to 2011 is DOWN. Specifically, firearm homicide is down 39% over that time period. But gun ownership is on a dramatic rise during that same time. Your claim that it's "just math" is "just wrong". More guns do not mean more shootings.
Source: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf
I'm confused by your argument. In your earlier post you say more guns equals more violence (which I show above, is not true), then you suddenly say more guns isn't the problem per se, then you attack gun owners here who choose to fight to keep their constitutionally protected rights and claim they are fearful racists? What? Where the heck did that come from? And who said this site was populated by Christians (actually there are a lot of different beliefs here) and even if they were, who are you to judge their motives based on some posts on a forum? I find that people that attack people personally are usually showing they have little more to back their arguments than opinion, and so, prefer the approach of trying to shut down their opponents in another way.
I don't think making uninformed opinions and presenting them as almost fact is helping, it doesn't. So, how about some more helpful information:
* As of 2009, there are approximately 307,000,000 people in the US, and about 300,000,000 guns. The population and the number of guns are both increasing, but, as I noted above, gun crime is actually on the decline.
* According to the US Dept. of Justice, in 2008, approximately 5,340,000 violent crimes were committed in the US. Of those crimes, approx. 436,000 were committed by criminals visibly armed with a gun. That's 8% of violent crimes with a known gun, meaning 92% of all violent crimes DID NOT INVOLVE A GUN.
* A 2000 study by the Journal of Quantitative Criminology found that US civilians used a gun to defend themselves from crime 989,883 times per year.
* In 1994, the Centers for Disease Control found that Americans used guns to frighten away intruders breaking into their homes 498,000 times per year.
* In 2007, there were 123,706 fatal accidents in the US. Of that, 613, or .5% were caused by firearms.
* In 2007 there were 27.7 million emergency room visits for non-fatal accidents in the US. Of those visits, approx 15,698 were caused by firearms - that's only .05% of the total.
Source: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
You may continue to think that gun ownership is creating some kind of epidemic of violence, directly linked to an increase in firearms ownership, but the numbers just don't back that up. Neither that there is an increase, nor that there is an epidemic.
What is on the rise are the number of 'mass' shootings. But since gun ownership really can't account for that, it must be something else that everyone is choosing to ignore. Violence is an issue. And yes, some violent criminals use guns as a tool to do their harm. But they use many methods, and we simply choose to ignore the rest and focus solely on the guns. Why? Why ignore the other tools? Why focus only on restricting guns? I, like many others here, believe the attack on our gun rights has nothing to do with violence, but rather on control, control over the American public.
Yeah, I stand on the side of freedom, what I can't understand is why more people don't. And why don't you?
Simple. This is not a publicly owned/operated forum. It is privately owned and that owner has set rules for how people act. Violate those rules and get a warning. There are things I'd sometimes like to say here, but I don't, because I don't want to violate those rules. If I need a place to say those things, I'll start my own forum.
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There are essentially two types of people. Good people, and evil people. Good people tend to mind their own affairs and wish others to treat them the same. They do not wish to commit harm or wrongdoing on other folks. They go about their business, making an honest living, raising families and respecting fellow citizens and the laws of the land. Evil people tend to make a living by thievery and deception. They don't care about the laws of a civil society. For whatever reason, they believe that what belongs to another should be theirs, and they can take it with impunity. They resort to violence many times, not just against law abiding citizens, but amongst themselves.
There will always be evil in the world. That is a fact. Sadly, as even our government is turning its back on Christianity, it is only going to get worse. Our moral compass is swinging wildly out of control.
Many elected officials and others continue to point the finger at guns as the source of gun violence. They tell us that if only there were no guns, gee whiz gosh darn, it would be such a swell world to live in. But, like incompetent physicians, they continue to treat the symptoms and not the disease.
Back in the 1960's, when most asylums were shut down and mental health care was reduced to the minimum, many mentally ill were just turned loose on the streets. This aversion to asylums as terrible places remains with us today, but mental health issues are worse than ever. Our hospitals and correctional institutions are now the new "asylums". Many large county jails in California readily admit that half the population of the jails are people with mental health issues, and the other half are purely criminal. They are the new "mental institutions". We wonder why our hospitals and the health care system is such a wreck, and why our prisons are so overpopulated.
As far as a world filled with unicorns and not guns, just take a look across our southern border to sunny Mexico. They have some of the most draconian gun laws I have ever seen. Most citizens can't even own a gun. Just how is that working out for them? Insanely wealthy drug lords who have the money to buy any black market military firearms they want, and enough left over to buy a lot of corrupt politicians. Our own government even tried to paint a picture that it was privately owned American firearms that were responsible for the crime in Mexico. What utter hogwash. The cartels have heavy weaponry and fully automatic firearms that you can't even find here in the states but for a military (that is government) arsenal.
Arms in the hands of the private, law abiding citizen is probably the only thing standing between us and complete anarchy. Disarm the American citizen, and you will have completed the last step to a total police state. And that won't be good for any of us.
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Don't confuse the leftist-sheep and drown his bleat with verifiable facts and numbers, it cuts accross his reason to live!!
WTH are you racist old white guys THINKING?!
WTH are you racist old white guys THINKING?!
"law abiding people dont shoot people until they do"? then they were never a law abiding person. I don't believe that these first time murderers ever intended on living a lawful life you just don't escalate yourself to the point of considering murder because you own a gun, there are narcissistic socio/psychopathic issues they've been struggling with for a long time that escalates them to going overboard and most often have a criminal history of smaller offences whether or not they have been caught for them.
"MORE guns equals MORE shootings" by this logic we should all be dead by now there are more guns floating around this country in private hands than there are people.
"BUT more guns cant equal less shootings..." you should read a book called 'More Guns, Less crime' by John Lott. Seriously.
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Don't bother, "he's" not interested in reading anything, only winning his skewed argument so "he" has something to talk about and "look cool" at the next Seattle elitists cocktail party.
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And if I am not a Christian?
Does that mean I shouldn't have a gun?
Does it mean you should?
What does that have to do with anything?
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First- WTH does "love" got to do with it?
Second- if we don't have the same mother, father, or Lord you aren't my brother.
Third- many of us here are armed to the teeth and skilled with those weapons, we're not afraid of a GD thing on this earth.
Fourth- maybe we're just sick of hearing shrieking, shrill, little leftist sheep run their mouth with condescending drivel who are trying to control all aspects of an argument and quash debate... like the control freaks they are.
Second- if we don't have the same mother, father, or Lord you aren't my brother.
Third- many of us here are armed to the teeth and skilled with those weapons, we're not afraid of a GD thing on this earth.
Fourth- maybe we're just sick of hearing shrieking, shrill, little leftist sheep run their mouth with condescending drivel who are trying to control all aspects of an argument and quash debate... like the control freaks they are.
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I'm a little late to this party, but have to say something here as I know Taku personally. Taku may give a black and white answer, but it's also an answer with a great deal of thought and experience behind it. You truly have no idea of who you slander, and I doubt you would have the courage to do so face to face instead of the anonymous protection of the Internet.
I would take one Take at my back than a hundred of you.
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He'd just give you the pickle if he was behind you anyway.
Your proof, you cant fix stupid.
Thank you brother but I just look at the source and that pretty much closes it.
The ignore switch works well
My bet is that one has been here under other names LOL I probably alredy have those on the ignore list also.
I(t is handy and males em vaporize so you don't have to see anything they post.
Just shows em as one line that says ignored member.
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I use that too, big help with resisting the urge to Feed The Troll. Ignore, Report and Move On.
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More guns only cause more deaths when the gobberment spends billions and sells them to cartels. Anyone who thinks citizens kill more people is delusional and on drugs. I once lived in Komifornia before the tyranny took hold. There were more guns in California then there are now and way way less crime and shootings infact cant even remember any so called shootings. You have criminal politicians banning citizens gun rights on one hand and selling on the black market on the other. Its all smoke and mirrors, I also live in one of the most heavily armed counties in Oregon people around here have tanks and sheets I kid you not. And near every house and person is armed. And we seldom have a shooting or armed robbery. Wanna know why?...................Cause Criminals go north to rob and steal in the more liberal counties where they can do their business less opposed. More shootings by citizens.................what a crock of bubblegum.
( sorry for leaning off topic crap like this gets me riled up)
( sorry for leaning off topic crap like this gets me riled up)
Yes there is a gun crime problem, but calling those responsible, "citizens" is quite generous. The ones responsible for 99% of this crap are recidivist career scumbags. Part of 1% are the ones who have mental health issues. Guys like me with jobs and families, who commit gun crime are the tiniest of minorities so until the antis address the real problem they can lick sac.
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Off on a trollish tangent here.
The CAP screwed up with their statistics, and left themselves open to ridicule.
Consider how much more impact, and nearly irrefutable, the following argument would have been:
* Since 1989, there have been 836,290 gun-related deaths among civilians.
* The number U.S. military deaths in all of U.S. history is 1,226,000. (I'm excluding the number ascribed to the wars that were also omitted in the article because I don't have the numbers available at hand.)
* Since 1989, the number of gun-related civilian deaths is 75% (approx.) of U.S. military deaths in all of U.S. history. Shocking!!
Messing with statistics always amuses me.
The CAP screwed up with their statistics, and left themselves open to ridicule.
Consider how much more impact, and nearly irrefutable, the following argument would have been:
* Since 1989, there have been 836,290 gun-related deaths among civilians.
* The number U.S. military deaths in all of U.S. history is 1,226,000. (I'm excluding the number ascribed to the wars that were also omitted in the article because I don't have the numbers available at hand.)
* Since 1989, the number of gun-related civilian deaths is 75% (approx.) of U.S. military deaths in all of U.S. history. Shocking!!
Messing with statistics always amuses me.
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