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Arguing with anti-gunners

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Jamie6.5, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Here's some ammo for ya!
    It seems the higher the "Brady score," the higher the violent crime and murder rates. We all know this, but verifiable facts can be helpful when a discussion presents itself.
    http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Aust...-2008-state-scorecard-Higher-score-more-crime
    And there's more:
    http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...miner~y2009m6d18-The-world-according-to-Brady
    And of course no list of this type would be complete without a comment from the NRA-ILA:
    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=3439

    Happy reading!
     
  2. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    They've made up their minds, don't confuse them with the facts...:(
     
  3. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    Sad to say, but I agree with this. You're wasting your time trying to convert die hard anti-gunners. Fence sitters are another matter.
     
  4. 56kninja

    56kninja Portland Member

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    I may have said it before on these boards (Well probably not)..But I don't care about stastics. They are nice and all, (to see that civilian gun ownership does have an impact)
    but it's not what should be the main argument.

    I'm not a criminal, I've never lost control and was close to committing a criminal act, I have common sense (Or so I believe :laugh:), There's no reason I shouldn't have the right to defend myself. Arguing that it's a bane on socieity (much like cigarettes) often is a dead end. Because if you say "Well we should ban cars" After all, they cause way more deaths than guns yearly, intentionally or un-intentionally.

    Anti-Gunners are usually liberals who were never exposed to guns as a kid, who could not imagine a day where a gun could be more vital to their survival than starbucks, and who never had to wait 40 minutes for police to arrive when some crack head tries to, or does kick in their door.
     
  5. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    My experience is that you will never convince anti-gunners to change their opinion. However, events can do it sometimes. An old saying is that after a liberal gets mugged, he will become a conservative. I don't know if it is true or not.
    But, if an "anti" gets scared somehow (hearing about a prowler around their neighborhood, for example), they may come around to ask for help in purchasing a gun. Help them out. Don't start with a .44 Magnum or an elephant rifle. Recommend something that won't turn them off the first time they fire it. I have helped a few this way.
    I once knew a man who was sleeping in his apartment when an armed burglar broke in, locked him in his closet and ransacked his house, piled the loot into my friends car and drove away. The next day he wanted to buy the biggest gun he could find. I suggested a .357 Magnum revolver starting out with .38 special ammo.
    Ya gotta crawl before ya walk!
     
  6. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    The point being that most ant-gunners are that way out of fear. Some you can convince to shed their fear and take their destiny into their own hands by becoming a gun owner/shooter/carrier/armed homeowner.

    With others, the best you can do is shift their fear. From fear of guns in general, to fear of becoming a victim of violent crime. When arguing this, specifics are important.
    There is data here that can help you do that. Not that I am a fear monger, quite the contrary. I do believe if they are going to be afraid, their fear should be properly grounded. Explain to them how the powerbrokers have lied, and you have the data to back it up.
    I pays to be able to point out that even if they choose not to own or carry a gun, the odds are they will live in a safer community if guns and carry rights are allowed to remain in place.
     
  7. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Unlike us, who show such incredible flexibility in our viewpoints about gun rights?

    To convince the fence-sitters, we have to be smart, not goofy, hysterical, or hyperbolic. Fence-sitters respond to reasonable people.
     
  8. 56kninja

    56kninja Portland Member

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    Actually, Anti-Gunners aren't truley that way out of fear. It comes from the elitism that can be witnessed in certain individuals.

    You see, elitists have to be in charge of everything. They enjoy being the "intelectual" and figure that they have control of the world. Why? Well, because they went to Berkley! That's why.

    They think that the system works, even though they admit it doesn't. They think that the police can handle all the issues. Why? Because the european's police forces do. (Even though they don't, especially in the rural parts).

    Let them learn on their own account when someone kicks in their door, and nobody is there to help them. It's cruel, but it's the only way to demonstrate the value of a good, reliable firearm.

    Some of it's fear. But mostly of it's just a case of elitism. This is something that I've observed personally, both on the internet and in real life.
     
  9. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    I would also add that many anti-gunners are that way out of, jump on the band wagon, look at me, I'm with the in crowd, or in short they are posers!
     
  10. Ding

    Ding Lighter Side of Oz Active Member

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    they all need guidance.
     
  11. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Especially the purdy ones! ;)
     
  12. bugeye

    bugeye Oregon Well-Known Member

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    One really useful stat to use when they bring up the number of gun deaths in the country, or say that guns are statistically more harmful to their owners than anyone else, is to point out that about 55% of gun deaths are suicides. Wait, maybe that isn't such a good stat to bring up.
     
  13. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Ya Probably not, but to expand on that thought, after the Australian gun ban the suicide rate stayed the same but the methods changed with a sharp increase in hanging deaths.

    As an off topic joke:

    Suicide is the sincerest form of self criticism!
     
  14. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    I think most ant-gunners truly believe that limiting access to guns will decrease crime and violence because they look at the issue based on their emotions rather than any factual data. I do believe there are some anti-gun politicians that use that fear and emotional response to advance a gun control agenda not because they think it will reduce crime and violence, but that it will help them to have more power over citizens. The old saying that it's not about guns, it's about control, is true.
     
  15. onearmedswordsman

    onearmedswordsman Hillsboro, OR Member

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    IMHO, there are two types of anti-gunners:
    1. The elitist, like 56kninja very well described, and
    2. The poor scared & deceived sheep who has bought into all the elitist mumbo jumbo.

    I know #2 very well; I used to be one until I saw the light? :D
     
  16. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Welcome citizen!
     
  17. 56kninja

    56kninja Portland Member

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    This is true. Gun owners, shooters, and anyone else you can connect to the topic.. Need to create an atmosphere that isn't full of die hard conservatism.

    Just people that enjoy guns for different reasons, whether it is to plink, or for self defense, or to hunt (or maybe they saw Red Dawn. :laugh: )
     
  18. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    The pro-gun, pro-2A community isn't a monolith and not subject to commands that people adhere to anyone's dogma. That's what being pro-2A is all about.
     
  19. onearmedswordsman

    onearmedswordsman Hillsboro, OR Member

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    If I turned, others can, too.
    "Never give up, never surrender".
    :)
     
  20. bugeye

    bugeye Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think there are many more, how about;
    3. People who think way too many gun nuts have a vested interest in the collapse of our system when they can kill and take what they want extracting some much deserved revenge for a life of povety being a clerk at Walmart.

    4. People who fear that the gun nuts will make Glen Beck king after the collapse of our system, I mean based on the politics of the average gun nut this isn't so far fetched.
     
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