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Are these worth anything? Is this musket real?

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I have a couple of guns I am helping a friend sell, but not sure if they are actually worth anything.

1st gun - Hopkins and Allen XL3 32 - very bad condition -

I found a couple others and one that looked the same in perfect condition with the box went for $485 at Rock Island Armory (forgotten weapons is awesome)

2nd gun - Colt 1908 25 serial #140... hoped it was custom engraved, but looks like pitted pretty bad- there was amo in the mag when I got it and slid racks fine

Musket , powder horn and sword - Any idea how to know if these are real?


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I see little or no value in the handguns. they look ruff.
I have a nice Colt .25 auto and paid $400 or so.

Musket looks like a reproduction. but ask Andy.

So what about the Sword. Any better pictures?
 
OP
fredridge
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I will get better pics of the sword - anything specific I should take pic of? I didn't see any markings, but will look again.

On the musket, all the markings are small and work- on the side with the hammer there is just some small numbers and other places can't make them out. The stock has some also. But nothing anywhere near as clear or as much as I see online.

Which Andy?


I see little or no value in the handguns. they look ruff.
I have a nice Colt .25 auto and paid $400 or so.

Musket looks like a reproduction. but ask Andy.

So what about the Sword. Any better pictures?
 
OP
fredridge
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I also picked up a Ruger Standard .22lr - I think it might be a MkII target, but need to look at it more

Edit: looks like its a Mark I built in 67
 
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AndyinEverson

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The flask is a US issue Riflemans's Flask...Sometimes known as a "Peace Flask" , because of the clasped hands.
To my eye it looks original due to the flask head and spout...it has a adjustable "safety valve" spout...and the rings on the side ...both of these features are copied very differently on reproduction flasks.
These flasks were in use from the late 1830's to the 1870's.

The Musket looks to me like a European Rifled Musket imported during the War of 1861-1865...many troops North and South used these...
My best guess would be Belgium ....
Any pictures of the markings would be of a big help here...
Again to my eye this looks original , not a reproduction...

As for the sword I would guess its some sort of fraternal organization sword from the 1890's onward...
Andy
 
OP
fredridge
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Cool.

I will try and get some better pictures of the markings.

A little bummed about the guns. Her husband thought they were worth something. I told her in their condition they may not be worth anything, but would find out.



The flask is a US issue Riflemans's Flask...Sometimes known as a "Peace Flask" , because of the clasped hands.
To my eye it looks original due to the flask head and spout...it has a adjustable "safety valve" spout...and the rings on the side ...both of these features are copied very differently on reproduction flasks.
These flasks were in use from the late 1830's to the 1870's.

The Musket looks to me like a European Rifled Musket imported during the War of 1861-1865...many troops North and South used these...
My best guess would be Belgium ....
Any pictures of the markings would be of a big help here...
Again to my eye this looks original , not a reproduction...

As for the sword I would guess its some sort of fraternal organization sword from the 1890's onward...
Andy
 
OP
fredridge
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So, I really can’t find much that look like they are clearly markings.

The clearest markings are the sideways 8 with the standup 7 next to it. On two of the barrel bands and the strip on the left side of the gun. This is what I would call an “infinity 7” mark.

Under the hammer there is another mark

Hard to tell, could be an 8 or an S maybe a 5. The middle number is clearly a 6 and then what looks like a 2

There is a mark behind the hammer mount at the back of the receiver, but not clear and could be someone banged it.

There are other things, but nothing that is clearly a proof mark. Like at back of barrel where strap connects to stock, could be an arrow or just a gash.

Here is a link to some images. Not sure if they will help.

Imgur
 

ZigZagZeke

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So, I really can’t find much that look like they are clearly markings.

The clearest markings are the sideways 8 with the standup 7 next to it. On two of the barrel bands and the strip on the left side of the gun. This is what I would call an “infinity 7” mark.

Under the hammer there is another mark

Hard to tell, could be an 8 or an S maybe a 5. The middle number is clearly a 6 and then what looks like a 2

There is a mark behind the hammer mount at the back of the receiver, but not clear and could be someone banged it.

There are other things, but nothing that is clearly a proof mark. Like at back of barrel where strap connects to stock, could be an arrow or just a gash.

Here is a link to some images. Not sure if they will help.

Imgur
The sword looks like a masonic ceremonial sword, but I could be wrong on that.

The Colt 1908 may look rough but I paid almost $200 for an original magazine for my Colt 1903 of the same vintage. I also paid $25 for a #6-40 shoulder screw that holds the slide lock in place. Pieces of these Colts are VERY expensive to replace. I wouldn't dismiss the value of that 1908 even in rough condition.
 
OP
fredridge
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Awesome. Thanks.

I just got to play with the colt and it is rough, but solid and everything seems to work on it. Not sure I would totally trust firing it. But didn’t look at the barrel much.

The Hopkins and Allen is horrible. Nothing works and cylinders rusty.

I’ll look into Masonic stuff for the sword

The sword looks like a masonic ceremonial sword, but I could be wrong on that.

The Colt 1908 may look rough but I paid almost $200 for an original magazine for my Colt 1903 of the same vintage. I also paid $25 for a #6-40 shoulder screw that holds the slide lock in place. Pieces of these Colts are VERY expensive to replace. I wouldn't dismiss the value of that 1908 even in rough condition.
 

AndyinEverson

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Thanks for the pictures of the rifled musket markings...
I still am thinking its a European import for the War of 1861-1865.
Do you know its caliber...? and if it actually is rifled...?
Thanks
Andy
 
OP
fredridge
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No idea on the caliber. Probably best I can do is measure the barrel.

I don’t think I saw grooves when looking before, but I will try and put a light down it.
Thanks for the pictures of the rifled musket markings...
I still am thinking its a European import for the War of 1861-1865.
Do you know its caliber...? and if it actually is rifled...?
Thanks
Andy
 
OP
fredridge
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Ok, I don’t see any rifling within a couple inches of the end of the barrel

Looks like the inner diameter is about 5/8 of an inch or 1 and 1/2 centimeters. Don’t have anything to get more precise.
Thanks for the pictures of the rifled musket markings...
I still am thinking its a European import for the War of 1861-1865.
Do you know its caliber...? and if it actually is rifled...?
Thanks
Andy
 

AndyinEverson

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So if there is no rifling...then I was wrong ...its a musket and not a rifled musket.
I was thinking it was a rifled musket due to the style of the rear sight....
Interesting gun for sure....still leaning to thinking that its a European import for the War of 1861-1865...
Andy
 

Mikej

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As for the sword I would guess its some sort of fraternal organization sword from the 1890's onward...
Andy
I know ONE thing for sure. There were no phillips screw head in the 1800s. :D Not to say it is still old, just that the screw isn't old.
 

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