Are there any serious BP living history people in this group?

[RVTECH]

My thought was that I'm a shootest, there to shoot an event, not a play actor to act like someone I'm not. I did like the event and at some point would like to do it again but right now I'd rather just go to the local gravel pit with my shooting buddy and play happy can all day.

Kind of similar to my first experience with CAS. I was invited to a 'shoot' at COSSA and and the dress was very minimal for the shooters there, heck pretty basic and some didn't look much different than how I see people dressed normally in Central Oregon.

Well the shoot was fun and I was invited to a CASS meeting and when I showed up I thought I had stepped onto the set of a movie. People were dressed to the 'nines' in 'authentic western wear' but I almost had to wear sunglasses to avoid the shine of Nickle plated Colt Peacemakers and shiny brass rivets & sequins.

Well, that ended it for me. I am a 'shooter' first and don't need the pomp and circumstance of an 'act' to enjoy it. The sad part is after a lifetime of growing up watching the westerns, owning lever and single actions and always respecting the era I thought CASS would be a good 'extension' of my interests but turned out it wasn't

 

[oremike]

My point being that one can go to events and have fun without going all period correct down to the gnats-bubblegum detail.

 

[oremike]

Me, I would have 'costumed up' like Wild Bill Hickock stepping out of the bathtub.

Couldn't be agin the rules, could it? Authentically nekkid in 1870 looks pretty much the same any time, right?

Ya-butt it does give real meaning when shooting prone to dick in the dirt.

 

[41mag]

I tried the historic Rondezvouer route about 40 years ago. Very educational....I learned going 'accurate historical' was more work & expense than I had available. If it were me & Hudsons Bay they would have listed me as missing somewhere unknown

 

[Capn Jack]

That's VERY odd.

How can anybody at a rondy even SEE your avatar? Guess it might be on one them rare-homespun hand-whittled compooters they'se talking about, eh?

Hi tac,
This was on a BP computer Site. I was contacted by one of the staff who told me that some of the members found my avatar offensive and I would have to change it if I wanted to remain a member. So I left.

 

[thorborg]

If you are playing trapper or explorer and haven't eaten dog, eaten boiled moccasin or the lice of your partners head or been emaciated at least once, like David Thompson, Alexander Henry, Knud Rasmusen, Samuel Hern, John Rae, Vilhjalmur Stefanssan, Rold Amunsen, Peter Freuchen, or Merriwether Lewis or many others I have read about from their personal accounts and journal's of, or the closest reports from others, on Hudson Bay Co, artic exploration, Etc
then you are not serious PB living history, either.

Going out into the woods for awhile when you can get back in your car and back to mommy when things get tough will never attain the status of even one of men I just mentioned. And even if you stayed in the wilderness and starved when you had means to evacaute yourself just means you are stupid, not serious.
I've read just about everything printed in English about the human connection both white and red of American continent north of the Rio Grand from the 1240's to 1950's
including much French, Russian, Dutch and other languages I was fortunate to find translated and feel confidant that @Andy54Hawken has an excellent handle on not only tradition, surrounding his time period of interest,
but a genuine desire to share and enlighten others. I think Andy deserves the title of "serious" more than any of us reading this thread..I also believe that were Andy to meet the likes of David Thompson, Samuel Hern, or John Rae, they would have become great friends and kindred spirits.

 

[solv3nt]

If you are playing trapper or explorer and haven't eaten dog

Found the Korean.

 

[BPOR11]

View attachment 1324926

That puffer fish kinda looks like that Al gore guy

 

[41mag]

While in the SASS matches, most/ALL of my 'costuming' was certified B grade Western or actual normal daily living attire. There were various categories of Single Action folks who shared 'historical firearm interest' while enduring considerable fluidity of costumery that determined which category one competed in. One of the strictest historical individuals I ever met was a character promoting "Grand Army of the Republic" which had a certain short lived epoch IIRC in the 1870s. His outfit was specific for weapon types, cloth styling, and even collar color for his specific Brigade. He could cite specific names from that era. It was way too overfocused for my own participation. My ability to play 'Anal compulsive' only goes so far.

Some of the SASS members thoroughly enjoyed the "frontier town gentry" dressing in accurate costumes of the era. Some pointed out the flaw such were fabricated on mechanical sewing machines, while others had various trivial comments. The defense against such lazy criticism could point out any who weren't using the Holy Black Powder in 44-40 or 38-40 or actually 'drove a motor vehicle' to the match, was breaking character anyway.

I've seen endless bickering about what is the right kit for such as Civil War Reenactments.
I can't help but recall the Mark Twain comment, to the effect that One can either NOT read the Newspaper and be Uninformed, or One who does read it and be Misinformed'.

YMMV.

 

[Capn Jack]

Then there is always one who wants to be called, "GRIZ".

 

[tac]

Hi tac,
This was on a BP computer Site. I was contacted by one of the staff who told me that some of the members found my avatar offensive and I would have to change it if I wanted to remain a member. So I left.

That's a new one to me - blackmail from a bunch of flakes? Gimme a break. Your avatar represents a rifle used honourably by millions of American service personnel, and they are offended by it? You are WAAAAY better off out of there, bro. As a parting gift I would have changed my avatar to a cat's a$$ and said goodbye.

 

[Capn Jack]

I thought about that but you know when you wrestle with pigs, all you get is muddy.

 

[Xotter143]

You still ain't really one of them.
They lived it ...day and day out....because it was all that they had.
Much like my term "close copies"....that is what we have and are ...
No matter how good or authentic one's gear is , or how one does things...
It still is only a close copy.

I have been involved in living history for over 40 years now and have never once met anyone who was trying to be D. Boone or any other specific person from history. That is not at all what experimental archeology is about. No one will ever recreate the exact living experiences of the past, but that is not what is being attempted nor have I have ever heard any living historian express that intention. The experience of living history is a tactile one. One that is focused on the mechanical aspects of history, about the parts of that history that we can experience for ourselves.

There are levels of understanding when it comes to history. On one end of the scale there are people who are content to simply read tales of the past in books, on the other side of the scale there are those that will spend days or weeks in the wilderness, traversing long distances using only the tools, clothing, food and weapons that they would have used for that particular moment in history. Between those two ends of the spectrum, one person is going to have a much fuller, broader and complex understanding of history than the other. One can read about market hunters of the 18th C. and enjoy the history, or one can experience that history in a deeper way by quietly stalk a deer through the snow while struggling to keep the pan on their flintlock dry for the coming shot.

When I am taking part in WWII living history I take on the job of a Signal Corp Photographer and demonstrate to the public how the photographic equipment worked and basically how photographs were taken long before their cell phones were the tech to carry. I also talk about the history of the combat photographers during the war and the wars previous to that, going back as far as the CW. I not only know the history, I use the photographic gear on a regular basis and understand all of the subtle nuances of it, from film to wet plate collodion (tintype) photography, insight that you would NEVER obtain from just reading a book or watching a movie.

In the many years I have been doing this I have had several Vets approach me and ask me about my camera and associate gear and in many cases these Vets end up being former combat photographers and press corps photogs. On nearly every occasion these gentlemen ask me questions that only one of their own would understand, in most cases in an attempt to trip me up. They'll ask me about how well the shutter works in the cold, knowing full well that only a person who has shot with one in the snow can experience how sluggish the lower speeds can get. They'll ask me if I ever carry flash bulbs in my wool uniform pockets and I'll laugh and tell them no, because I know that they can be set off with static charge in certain circumstances, like running in a wool uniform. These men appreciate that I am taking the time and effort to not just read about what they did, but doing my best to at least understanding the tactile aspect of it. I don't just know that they used a Speed Graphic camera, I KNOW what it's like to struggle with one in the field. I know what it is like to try and take a photo from a moving WWII Jeep in the pouring rain. I know what it is like to struggle to change a film holder with numb fingers while sitting on the back of a Stuart Tank trying not to get thrown off as it rattles down a rocky, snow covered road. I've dealt with burnt fingers from flash bulbs at an officers event and carried that heavy camera through all kinds of terrain. muck and mud all while wearing full combat kit, weapon and gear, soaking wet and freezing cold. Those vets appreciate that I understood all of that and they were thrilled that someone cared enough about what they did in the past to suffer through at least some aspects of it to better understand them and their experiences. Although no one today will ever fully understand what it was like for them during the war, it was enough that someone cared so much that they gladly put themselves through at least some of it. It makes a handshake and a "thank you for your service" much more meaningful to them.

That is what living history is about, or at least should be. It's not about a standing on a shooting trail in Nikes and buckskins, nor is it about pretending your D. Boone. It is about putting yourself as close to the history as you possibly can in hopes of grasping even a glimmer of the lives of the past. It is the closest to time travel we will ever have.

 

[Xotter143]

If you are playing trapper or explorer and haven't eaten dog, eaten boiled moccasin or the lice of your partners head or been emaciated at least once,

Ever actually ran a trap line for a living? I have, for several years in fact, so I guess that puts me one step closer to understanding that part of the history than those that have not. That is what living history is about. It's not about pretending that you are living in that time, it is about experiencing the tactile aspect of their lives. What it was like to use the tools, weapons and clothing that they did in the same environment as they did. Doing so gives you a better understanding of their daily lives, the subtleties of their time that aren't covered in most history books. Also, if you honestly believe that everyone from that era at some point ate their moccasins or starved nearly half to death than you clearly don't have a well rounded understanding of that history, you are more focused on the cliche's rather than the facts.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I have been involved in living history for over 40 years now and have never once met anyone who was trying to be D. Boone or any other specific person from history. That is not at all what experimental archeology is about. No one will ever recreate the exact living experiences of the past, but that is not what is being attempted nor have I have ever heard any living historian express that intention. The experience of living history is a tactile one. One that is focused on the mechanical aspects of history, about the parts of that history that we can experience for ourselves.

There are levels of understanding when it comes to history. On one end of the scale there are people who are content to simply read tales of the past in books, on the other side of the scale there are those that will spend days or weeks in the wilderness, traversing long distances using only the tools, clothing, food and weapons that they would have used for that particular moment in history. Between those two ends of the spectrum, one person is going to have a much fuller, broader and complex understanding of history than the other. One can read about market hunters of the 18th C. and enjoy the history, or one can experience that history in a deeper way by quietly stalk a deer through the snow while struggling to keep the pan on their flintlock dry for the coming shot.

When I am taking part in WWII living history I take on the job of a Signal Corp Photographer and demonstrate to the public how the photographic equipment worked and basically how photographs were taken long before their cell phones were the tech to carry. I also talk about the history of the combat photographers during the war and the wars previous to that, going back as far as the CW. I not only know the history, I use the photographic gear on a regular basis and understand all of the subtle nuances of it, from film to wet plate collodion (tintype) photography, insight that you would NEVER obtain from just reading a book or watching a movie.

In the many years I have been doing this I have had several Vets approach me and ask me about my camera and associate gear and in many cases these Vets end up being former combat photographers and press corps photogs. On nearly every occasion these gentlemen ask me questions that only one of their own would understand, in most cases in an attempt to trip me up. They'll ask me about how well the shutter works in the cold, knowing full well that only a person who has shot with one in the snow can experience how sluggish the lower speeds can get. They'll ask me if I ever carry flash bulbs in my wool uniform pockets and I'll laugh and tell them no, because I know that they can be set off with static charge in certain circumstances, like running in a wool uniform. These men appreciate that I am taking the time and effort to not just read about what they did, but doing my best to at least understanding the tactile aspect of it. I don't just know that they used a Speed Graphic camera, I KNOW what it's like to struggle with one in the field. I know what it is like to try and take a photo from a moving WWII Jeep in the pouring rain. I know what it is like to struggle to change a film holder with numb fingers while sitting on the back of a Stuart Tank trying not to get thrown off as it rattles down a rocky, snow covered road. I've dealt with burnt fingers from flash bulbs at an officers event and carried that heavy camera through all kinds of terrain. muck and mud all while wearing full combat kit, weapon and gear, soaking wet and freezing cold. Those vets appreciate that I understood all of that and they were thrilled that someone cared enough about what they did in the past to suffer through at least some aspects of it to better understand them and their experiences. Although no one today will ever fully understand what it was like for them during the war, it was enough that someone cared so much that they gladly put themselves through at least some of it. It makes a handshake and a "thank you for your service" much more meaningful to them.

That is what living history is about, or at least should be. It's not about a standing on a shooting trail in Nikes and buckskins, nor is it about pretending your D. Boone. It is about putting yourself as close to the history as you possibly can in hopes of grasping even a glimmer of the lives of the past. It is the closest to time travel we will ever have.

Again...
All I can say is I don't think that you know me.
Nor are we really going to agree here.

In any event...
I wish you luck in your search for like minded individuals.
Andy

 

[oremike]

OP, I like what you do and have visited several renacments over the years as a visitor. When I visit the sights I like to walk thru the camps and sometimes learn stuff. Heck I just learned from you that I shouldn't put flash bulbs in my wool pockets. Not that I use flash bulbs but it's a small peice of information that my mind likes to collect. I like cultural history and as an amiture photographer seek it out. That being said, I'm ok with being a modernish man. I dabbled a bit with the Holy Black but prefer to shoot smokeless powder.

 

[thorborg]

No clichés, Please reference your source for that. I have always discounted all history books, and media representation, as glossed over mostly fiction. My words come from the horses mouth of most of the men referenced, from over sixty years of constant and in-depth reading. Have you read any of the personal journals of any of those men? I'm not talking the likes of Washington Irving, but the real early adventurers, Me think not or you wouldn't be so frivolous and discounting towards their hardships of survival. I never said "everyone" but all these men did, and tell of others of their ilk also so unfortunate.., that's a pretty high percentage.
The real trappers from the time when most of north America was unmapped were constantly under siege form critters, environment, starvation, Indians and other trappers hoarding competitive and productive areas and travel routes for Hudson Bay, North west fur, and John Astor's fateful venture among a couple others, with many if not most, (before the settlers began to migrate), living a very short life..
Reminds me of Thoreau's Walden Pond. Many I do not associate with hold his book up as some sort of bible towards achieving Nirvana. As a concept, it is hypercritical. The reality of it it was a very short time in his life, always with the piece of mind he could quit whenever, lived on a tiny piece of borrowed land surrounded by civilization, snuck into town for a good steak when things got tough. Went back to the good life when he had enough for his book, Real survival, loneliness, desperation never weighed heavy on him because he knew he was less than 20 miles from his rich friends and no one was likely to attack him. but Hey, He was seriously living history. for a little while.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

@Andy54Hawken has an excellent handle on not only tradition, surrounding his time period of interest,
but a genuine desire to share and enlighten others. I think Andy deserves the title of "serious" more than any of us reading this thread..I also believe that were Andy to meet the likes of David Thompson, Samuel Hern, or John Rae, they would have become great friends and kindred spirits.

Thank you for this...It means a lot.
Andy

 

[Xotter143]

No clichés, Please reference your source for that. I have always discounted all history books, and media representation, as glossed over mostly fiction. My words come from the horses mouth of most of the men referenced, from over sixty years of constant and in-depth reading. Have you read any of the personal journals of any of those men? I'm not talking the likes of Washington Irving, but the real early adventurers, Me think not or you wouldn't be so frivolous and discounting towards their hardships of survival. I never said "everyone" but all these men did, and tell of others of their ilk also so unfortunate.., that's a pretty high percentage.

You discount all history books but rely on journals as the sole representative of an entire history? Journals certainly have their place in the arsenal of historical research, but to say that much of what is written in journals should be taken with at least a grain or two of salt is putting it mildly. Not only have journals of all types been found to contain poorly remembered dates and events but they also represent the memory of a single individual and a bias ones at that. Even if a journal is completely truthful it at best represents the experiences and memories of a single individual in a vast spectrum of society of any given time. To put it in perspective for you, that would be like a historian 200 years from now believing that they can completely understand the complexity of Oregon in 2022 by reading the bog entries from five individuals who lived in one county during that time. Ridiculous.

History is broader than that and certainly more complex. I have read dozens of journals, including every single volume ever written by the Corps of Discovery. I have read journals of crewmen that took part in the early Sea Otter Fur Trade of the NW in the 1790's, I have read several journals written by soldiers and trappers who worked for Hudson Bay. I've read journals of men and women who were captured by Natives, of those who crossed the prairie during the Great Migration and have interviewed dozens of WWII vets for the National Archives. I understand the importance of first hand knowledge and the role it plays in researching history. But I also understand that human memory is flawed and people consistently had tendencies to aggrandize their experiences (especially in the Western Frontier of the 19th C.) and such information is only valuable when compared with other sources as well.

For example... I had a D-Day Vet walk up to me while I was in uniform at a D-Day commemorative event, point at my feet and tell me with absolute certainty that no one ever wore M-38 leggings on the beaches of Normandy that fateful day. He is of course absolutely wrong as there are countless photos of soldiers wearing said leggings throughout that terrible day and long after (although none of us attending told him that he was mistaken of course), but it was a solid example of how recollections can be so completely wrong, even by those who witnessed the history first hand. Remember that many of the journals out there were not written at the time the events happened but were written months and sometimes years later and even those written at the time often went through editing and alteration before publication.

Can journals give much needed personal insights into history? Of course. They can in some cases give far more depth to a period of time and can act as a window to the less noticed parts of society and that can certainly help give a much more rounded view of events. But to treat them as the truest form of historical reading is foolishness. It takes more than just apples to make an apple pie.

 

[thorborg]

I'm sorry emaciation and dog meat stirred your pot so, but even then I'm not seeing from your prolific response where you come up with supportive evidence to discount my generalized submission. Unless you lived in the time, and according to you, is also suspect, by your own response I should discount your opine also. Nothing is what it seems, it seems.
Some of the hundreds of sources read over sixty years, are written in real time, hence "Journal" not from memory, nonetheless, when added to those which are not, or "autobiography", with vague dates, time, and names not withstanding, even some with obvious bigotries and embellishments aside, this Ignorant and gullible historian will continue to believe early explorers and traders eye witnessed descriptions of life in general, when taken en masse, they provide a fairly truthful picture, especially via separate corroboration of events.
Disclaimer:
Excuse my "foolishness" , I'm just an old man wroth with many prejudice and privilege's as I am told by the wise of the world so I am completely happy to inform all readers it will be prudent to discount my uninformed ramblings". I must admit though, my Apples make Pie just fine and will continue to spread misinformation through the world.