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Are there any old Winchester experts here?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by OR4X4, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. OR4X4

    OR4X4 Hour south of portland Member

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    I have an old model 1894 that I would love to gain some knowledge about, as to condition, origionality, and what it's worth from a collection standpoint. If you know alot about them, please let me know and I'll put up a bunch of info about it and some pics.
     
  2. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I am not an expert. I have a number of old Winchesters, and I have the necessary books to tell you what can be found out. I am one of the very few collectors who will start with the sentence that I did. I am at least as interested as you are about your gun. For me it will be as much a learning experience as it is for you. My father was a devoted lifelong collector of Winchesters, and he tried to impart all his knowledge to me. He would never have claimed to anyone that he was an "expert". We may continue this adventure on this forum, or you may PM me, as is your desire. I believe others may benefit by the public exchange, but my assessment of this entire website is on the whole devoted to other pursuits, and not related to older firearms. I desperately wish it were not so.
     
  3. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    I have several old Winchesters. They have always been my favorite gun. I know some things about some of them. I've recently started collecting early semi autos. I would like to see more discussion about Winchesters.
     
  4. toolfan

    toolfan North Portland Member

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    I have an early '94 ('95 production) that I really like, and I enjoyed the heck out of learning about it. Plus, it's a hoot to shoot. :thumbup:

    I'd be interested in learning about another.
     
  5. magnum

    magnum Springfield American....'nuff said

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    I have a book on winchester manufacture dates/serial #'s. If you provide me the serial # on here or in a pm, I can tell you when it was made.
    I also am not an expert but I have several books dealing with colt, s&w and winchester and if I can provide some info on a gun I will happily do so.
    Just my .02 contribution.:thumbup::D
     
  6. terrylf72

    terrylf72 Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    Ok heres a question I had that I didnt get to make a thread for yesterday.. I have an win. 94 30-30 TE frame that my dad had used for parts on another rifle. is there anyway I convert it to a 44 mag or 357mag by just getting a barrle magazine tube, bolt, followers and some of the other mis. parts??
     
  7. OR4X4

    OR4X4 Hour south of portland Member

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    I was hoping I'd get some reply's, thanks guys!
    Here's some info, and later today I could take pictures. It's a model 1894 .30wcf That I bought for almost nothing. I'm pretty sure the rear sight is an aftermarket replacement, from who knows when, but other than that I am not sure of originality. The serial # is 5digits - 353XX. The barrel is round and is 26 inches to the beginning of the chamber. the magazine tube is about 1/4 inch shorter than the barrel. The wood for the front handguard has a narrow split in the wood about 3 inches long on the bottom towards the muzzle, and someone has installed a small screw type mount into the butt, I'm guessing for a sling at one time. The wood doesnt seem bad in relation to age aside from some normal small dings and scratches. The action is very smooth, and I don't see any "red" rust anywhere inside or out. You can see wear from the flathead screws being used. Anything you folks could tell me about this rifle would be great.
     
  8. OR4X4

    OR4X4 Hour south of portland Member

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    summerpics364.jpg

    summerpics365.jpg

    summerpics366.jpg

    summerpics367.jpg

    summerpics368.jpg
     
  9. toolfan

    toolfan North Portland Member

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    The other guys will tell you exactly what year, but I'm almost positive a 5 digit starting in 3 serial number is pre-1898.

    I'm also pretty sure that it should have an octogonal barrel, but someone with better resources will chime in soon. If it were replaced, that would explain the rear sight as well.

    Edit - after a couple minutes with google, I'm not all that confident that it should have an octogonal barrel. Mine does, and so do the other early models I've seen, but it sounds like round barrels may have been produced pretty early in production.
     
  10. BIG_GUNNUT

    BIG_GUNNUT North Central Oregon Active Member

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    Manufactured in 1895. Value is tough without actually seeing and handling, but is probably somewhere between $750 and $1300. Maybe a bit more. They are nice old guns, but remember to have it checked by a qualified Gunsmith before shooting it. Thanks for sharing.
     
  11. slingshot1943

    slingshot1943 salem or Well-Known Member

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    I think that the round barrel was optional. At least that is what I was told years ago. But I can't verify it. That is a nice rifle I really like the cresent butt plate.
     
  12. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It is a rifle, which is less common than the carbine. (from 1894 to 1932: time period for which such a record was kept), 1 of 3 guns was a rifle, and 7 of 10 guns was caliber .30wcf. (.30-30).

    Octagon barrel is the most common version of the rifle, round barrels being more rare. There was actually an option for half-octagon/half round barrel, heavy barrels, extra light barrels, etc. The round barrel was lowest in price, and standard, but the octagon production is predominate in guns prior to the 300,000 serial range.
    Total guns produced in 1895: 29,599.

    1895 was the first year for the .30wcf.

    Any rear sight by almost any manufacturer could be fitted at the factory per the customer's request, so if (as I interpret) your rear sight is an old "Marble's", it is considered "correct" for the gun.

    The "Screw Mount" you mentioned (on the butt) intrigues me, and I cannot see (or missed) it in the pics. Sling swivel arrangements varied, were an available option from the factory. Look at the forearm cap for an unfilled hole designating this gun might have been swivel-fitted at one time.

    Hope this helps. A happy adventure.
     
  13. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The '94 is not your best bet if you're converting to .357 or such. The '92 is a better prospect, and this was a relatively popular conversion in the 60's.

    But in either case, by the time you get all the work done, you'd have been better off financially to just buy a newly manufactured pistol-caliber lever gun (Like a Winchester or Marlin).

    And you don't wanna run around destroying old nice '92's and '94's.
     
  14. OR4X4

    OR4X4 Hour south of portland Member

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    I've been told by a couple guys now, so it seems it's an 1895. Which is pretty cool to me.

    Spitpatch, by PM Magnum also told me that stat about how many were made in 1895. I think it's fascinating that they were able to make 80-81 of these rifles per day with the technology available at that time.
    Also very good eye Spitpatch, that's exactly what the rear sight is, and I was looking really closely and the front sight is also made my Marbles.

    The screw type mount in the butt is surely a diy job, It looks like a brass nut was ground round and inserted although there is a small peg/key (to keep the round "nut" from turning).
    You can see the brass in the first pic, I'll take a clear one of it for you to see.

    Thanks for all of the info guys!
     
  15. OR4X4

    OR4X4 Hour south of portland Member

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    summerpics.jpg
     
  16. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Great detail on the "homegrown" sling stud remnants.

    If you are wondering why and how on this, it was extremely common (and I have two old Winchesters with a similar arrangement: sling loop on the butt only) for the average man of limited means to use an old piece of latigo (flat leather) or belt leather, attach it somehow "permanently" to the butt, then merely loop it around the barrel and magazine (usually just ahead of the forearm cap) and lace it in place there.
     
  17. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Model 1876 Winchester, Made in 1884. Caliber 45-60. Shot was at 80 yards.

    Not too bad for a fine piece of American machinery built 126 years ago.

    Give that old gun a chance in the field!
     
  18. bwells

    bwells Longview Member

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    +1. Nice looking rifle. It definitely belongs outside.