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Are material items worth a thief's life?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by talntid, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. talntid

    talntid spokane Member

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    EDIT: Lets say, all laws aside. What do you as a HUMAN feel should happen? I am curious if people agree with the laws of the land on the matter, or if they would truly prefer to just protect their property. Compassion vs Protection



    I am curious as to your opinions. Here is the hypothetical situation:

    You live paycheck to paycheck.
    You only have $100 in the bank
    You rent an apartment, for $700/month
    You are a conceal carry holder, and carry your favorite handgun.

    You have your rent money in your pocket. You are driving down the street at night, and a thief comes up and robs you. You have two choices - give him your rent money, possibly causing yourself to become evicted if you cannot come up with the money again, or pull your weapon, possibly placing yourself in the situation to have to end his life. Lets say that he is not using a weapon, but rather just trying to strong arm you.

    Lots of people would like to say "it's not worth possibly taking someones life, just give them the money!"

    Also, same scenario, but your wife/kid/loved one is also in the car..
    same actions?

    What do you think?
     
  2. Sawdust

    Sawdust Bull Mountain(Tigard), OR Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    First off, let me say that there are so many variables that come into play in a shoot/no-shoot situation that it's impossible to predict how I/anyone might really react. That being said I think the question should be directed to the supposed thief.

    "Are my material items worth your life?" Because if I am in fear for my life-or great bodily injury-or the life of others nearby because of your actions, I will defend myself/others by any and all means available. (That statement of course being directed to the thief.)

    Just my opinion. :)
     
  3. sweetbeard

    sweetbeard Beavertown OreGUN! New Member

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    kill him
     
  4. mattg521

    mattg521 portland.,or Member

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    I think I'd just go with Nancy on this one and just say "NO".
    Suprising how well this works if you are prepared to stand there and stare someone down.
    Don't get me wrong. It makes a lot more sense to give some scumbag your last $700 than to deal with the possible outcome of entering "The System" as a defendant in even the most justifible shoot which this clearly isn't.
    However if a solid "FU I earned this $, go earn your own" as you reach for your gun doesn't convince them to disengage then the justification level of the shoot changes doesn't it?
     
  5. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    Well the thing about this is, that if he is not using a weapon, I really don't see this as an appropriate situation to even draw a firearm. Your life most likely isn't threatened (maybe unless hes twice your size), but even then, you're in a vehicle, and most likely have the option of escape.

    I guess I've looked too much into the specifics of the scenario :laugh:


    But to answer your question, to me its not worth taking a life to protect possessions that are on your person, because most likely you're not justified to take a life for that. Now if the perp had a weapon, and was threatening my life, then yes I would defend myself. Not because I'm defending my possessions, but because it is a threat on my being.

    But in the end it just comes down to situation assessment and the ability to make critical decisions rapidly. In this scenario you'd have to assess the type of force that is justified, all available options, and which side has the advantage.
     
  6. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    Kill the SOB the government hates competition, you'll get off the charges.

    seriously you would spend more than the 700 in court fees in the end. If the thief doesnt have a weapon than you would be "Bubblegummed" big time. My question would be why are you driving around with the cash if you live on a budget like that. Also you are in a car he is on foot just simply drive away from the situation.
     
  7. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    If he has a weapon there is no guarantee compliance with his demands will save you from harm unless you are willing to take his word for it, just like there is no guarantee your weapon will save your life if you pull it. If I get robbed I will be watching for the first chance I can pull and shoot. I will not pull and threaten.
     
  8. servingu

    servingu Vancouver (not BC) WA (not DC) Member

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    Kill him if he wants to strong arm you who knows what he is willing to do to get what you have. if you dont pull your gun and he beats the **** out of you he wins gets your cash or if your wife or kids are there and then who knows what this sob will do to them. i dont fist fight anymore been there done that. i will try and try my hardest to get away and not have to kill him but if i cant.....
     
  9. sir-frogman

    sir-frogman Prineville Or. Member

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    If my family is with me, i would rather pay for therepy, rather than there funeral.
     
  10. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    If I can drive away I will do so.
    If I am in a position that prevents that, he suffers.
    If my family is with me they are, by default, threatened also.

    That $700 isn't just a "material thing" in these circumstances. It greatly affects the health and welfare of my family. It is the roof over my and my family's head. It may mean food for the table as well as a place to put the table out of the weather.
    Will my landlord be understanding about my circumstances? I doubt it.
    Will I have the cash to rent another place if I can't pay the rent where I am? NO!!

    And, with the cost of hospitalization, my legal representation will probably be cheaper than the Doctor's bills and E-room fees.

    Avoid an attack of conscience, put your loved ones first.
    A wise man once told me I have the most to worry about from the person with the least to lose.
    I think that applies here. To the perp as well as myself.
     
  11. DERGLOCKINMEISTER

    DERGLOCKINMEISTER SPRINGFIELD OREGON Member

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    No !! I said no !! Bang ! Bang ! Still no !!
     
  12. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If money is an issue then you can't afford the legal costs of defending yourself in even a justifiable shooting. Only shoot if your life is truly in danger. When I used to carry, I once had to put my hand back on my revolver revealing it to a very aggressive panhandler in downtown pdx. It got him to back off and I left the area. Use of force doesn't have to be off or on, it can be used like a dimmer switch.
     
  13. phathom

    phathom Vancouver, WA Member

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    I keep my ccw in the same pocket as my wallet with one chambered. I sure would "give it to him", providing my life was in danger, such as him threatening with a weapon or there being multiples. If it was just some guy unarmed, I would just tell him to F off.
     
  14. mhadix

    mhadix Tacoma,WA Member

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    boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom,boom.......sounds of reloading.........assess the situation
     
  15. Zak

    Zak Snohomish County New Member

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    Depends on the perceived "or else" if I don't comply. If he's not threatening enough to make me fear for my safety then he's a beggar / pan handler and gets nothing. If I felt I was in danger then I would do what I needed to until I wasn't in danger. I don't think I would trust that he would take the money and leave.
    I think a truer gauge would be, laws aside, as you leave the bank, thief grabs that last $700 from you and runs away. Do you use deadly force to stop him?
     
  16. Gunner69

    Gunner69 Hillsboro Member

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    I read this thread when it was first started, it took me a little bit to actually form a measured opinion and response to the theoretical situation laid out before us.

    I am curious as to your opinions. Here is the hypothetical situation:

    You live paycheck to paycheck.
    You only have $100 in the bank
    You rent an apartment, for $700/month
    You are a conceal carry holder, and carry your favorite handgun.

    You have your rent money in your pocket. You are driving down the street at night, and a thief comes up and robs you. You have two choices - give him your rent money, possibly causing yourself to become evicted if you cannot come up with the money again, or pull your weapon, possibly placing yourself in the situation to have to end his life. Lets say that he is not using a weapon, but rather just trying to strong arm you.

    Lots of people would like to say "it's not worth possibly taking someones life, just give them the money!"

    Also, same scenario, but your wife/kid/loved one is also in the car..
    same actions?

    What do you think?


    Here’s my take on it…


    I think we tend to get caught up in the humanity side of the equation. The “feelings” involved in what is going to transpire. I tend to live my life by a very basic set of values, a moral compass if you will. I do not go out of my way to harm others, verbally, physically, or emotionally. I expect the same from my fellow man. However, if that fellow man wants to threaten me, my family or those in my care then that threat will be met with a decisive and oft times brutal response.

    The threat is already perceived in the initial demand. “Give me all your money” there is an “or else” added on to the end of that statement regardless of the fact that it’s not verbalized. You are not taking my property, be it my rent money, my car, or my Mickey Mouse watch. It doesn’t matter you are not leaving with it.

    Would I take the perpetrators life to protect my family, not initially there is a continuity of force. And the situation as described doesn’t give enough detail as to the exact circumstances. Am I still in my car? If so I’ve got about 5,000lbs of steel at my disposal and will use it to extract myself and my family from the situation. Bad guy gets ran over oops I’m all ready dialing 911 as soon as it’s safe to do so. They can send an ambulance along with the police. Am I cornered? Outside my vehicle with no clear exit, bad guy is going to have a very BAD night. Again the threat is there I don’t want to kill anybody but I WILL ensure the safety of myself and my family over that of a wood-be robber. Harsh yes, brutal possibly but we are going home safe one way or the other.

    Much like real life nothing is ever certain. Would I immediately move from the demand to deadly force I’d like to think not, but I know I am capable of making that jump in the blink of an eye when threatened.
     
  17. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    He deserves to die. He has no right to take your belongings at anytime, anyplace, or for any reason. We all work for what we have and no crack head is entitled to my belongings for any reason. In times like this we all need to hold on to what we have. I don't care if its a quarter or a million dollars. I work hard for what I have and I will not let anybody take if I can stop it. Might not shoot them but a bat works good as well as a good old beat down. I am sick of people who think they are entitled to others properties. Why society lets this happen is beyond me but I feel the complete opposite and on the other note if somebody needs helps and asks for it than I usally do. The worst part about this is the justice system seems to work better for criminals than the law abiding citizen. But I will protect all my belongings at at all costs because of all the sweat and hours and savings that went into getting them. I deserve them because I worked hard for them and I did not steal from anybody to get them and everybody else can do the same except there is a bunch of lazy people out there who would rather steal than earn. I have no sympathy for them when they get caught and get their asses kicked or worse. Sounds like a personal problem.
     
  18. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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  19. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    Well if I were a thief and I stole a car, laptop, or a womens purse would it be worth my life? Simple no! But if I knew my life would be involved it would be a Fort Knoxx job than I would be ready to die.
     
  20. PBinWA

    PBinWA Clark County Well-Known Member

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    Well said. I think the problem is an endemic symbol of moral decline in our society. We should not value the criminal higher than the crime no matter how trivial the crime.