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AR15 pistol brace question

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by FA9, Aug 14, 2015.

  1. FA9

    FA9 Hillsburrito, ORgun Well-Known Member

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    This maybe a dumb ? but is it legal to shoulder a ar15 with a pistol brace if I put a 16in upper on?
     
  2. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    yes
     
  3. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but do not put a pistol upper on a rifle lower receiver - even if you put a pistol brace on it. In fact, don't put the pistol brace on the rifle lower either. If the lower receiver starts life as a rifle it must remain so unless you fill out the proper forms. A pistol lower can be converted back and forth without problems per the ATF.

    This is my opinion, just to be clear; it's not intended to be used as legal advice.
     
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  4. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    legally u can put a PISTOL lower on anything no matter the length as long as it doesnt have a buttstock IIRC.
     
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  5. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    That does not conflict with my understanding of the situation. :)
     
  6. decklin

    decklin WA Well-Known Member

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    As long as you have that 16" barrel you're good to go. Here's a link to the applicable ATF letter.
    Personally I think this is one of the most absurd restrictions imaginable.

    https://www.atf.gov/file/11816/download
     
    kod38 likes this.
  7. FA9

    FA9 Hillsburrito, ORgun Well-Known Member

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    :s0067:
     
  8. v0lcom13sn0w

    v0lcom13sn0w Keizer, or Well-Known Member

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    ya along with 941, its pretty ridiculous.

    i feel SBRs should not require a stamp. Really? a 15.5 inch barrel is illegal but add half an inch and youre good? DUMB.
     
    kod38 and decklin like this.
  9. KTM530XCW

    KTM530XCW Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    By their logic, in that letter, holding any pistol with two hands would make it an aow.
     
    Dyjital likes this.
  10. decklin

    decklin WA Well-Known Member

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    Their way of thinking has opened a dangerous avenue. Where misuse constitutes a redesign.
    My bet is in the next 10 years we're gonna see some crazy laws. And not just involving guns.
    As far as shooting goes this could affect AOW's and others too.
    Say you're shooting a pistol grip shotgun. It was a pistol grip from the manufacturer.
    You have a sling. To shoot you bring the weapon up and stretch the sling so it's taught.
    Some refer to this as "British style".
    Does this constitue a redesign as you in a sense have created a buttstock?
    This style of shooting works for ANY gun without a buttstock and you can attach a sling to the rear of the receiver.
     
  11. bakersman345

    bakersman345 Camas wa Well-Known Member

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    Last letter I saw, said they changed there mind on sholder firing. They used to say it was okay but that has since changed.

    As for the rifle pistol stuff most places sell stripped lowers as "other" so you to build a pistol or a rifle. My understanding is a patil lower can become ether however a rifle lower cannot be become a pistol legally.
     
  12. Deebow

    Deebow Portland Well-Known Member

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    Who gives a fudgeknuckle if you turn a lower receiver into a pistol or rifle? The ATF? Not likely, unless your garage workbench is located next to their cubicle at the Federal Building. The local LE? Not likely, busy with traffic tickets, car accidents and real crimes to solve.

    The prohibition of firing an AR15 pistol with a brace from the shoulder comes from your "intent." Did you intend to install the brace in order to circumvent the NFA and not get a tax stamp? Proving your "intent" seems like a long bridge to cross unless for 2 months you told everyone you knew that you were putting the brace on to avoid the NFA tax stamp.

    I have been going to the range with some variant of an AR15 in my possession for over 20 years and no one from the ATF has ever been there to run a check on my S/N to see what it was or wasn't before it became a pistol.

    All this drama about what can or can't be done. I don't live with an ATF agent and I don't take any of them to the range. There won't be anyone to care what you do or don't do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
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  13. decklin

    decklin WA Well-Known Member

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    Three people were arrested and charged under this letter.
     
  14. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Hence the upper with an 11.5 inch barrel and a 5.5 inch flash hider....I think about buying one of these because they are so odd.
    These regulations are ridiculous, however and rather than curb Modern Sporting rifle sales they have increased five fifty 6 sales exponentially because every one needs three or more before they are illegal.

    Brutus Out
     
  15. Deebow

    Deebow Portland Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a link to this story? I would love to know the details. My guess is that the folks that found themselves hemmed up made themselves a target by making it known to the powers that be what they were doing and asking all manner of technical questions that probably got them visited by the ATF.
     
  16. decklin

    decklin WA Well-Known Member

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    Pretty close. They actually used it in a crime. So they aren't upstanding citizens but it shows they are willing to charge over it.


    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...arged-owning-sbr-pistol-brace-equipped-ar-15/
     
  17. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Stupid is as stupid does.

    Brutus Out
     
  18. Flopsweat

    Flopsweat Slightly right of center Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure the lowers I bought were listed as "Receiver".
     
  19. KTM530XCW

    KTM530XCW Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    So has anyone been convicted yet for shouldering a brace?

    Reason i ask is that the ATF letter is merely their interpretation of the law and says how they will prosecute. Whether it is actually illegal or not won't be determined until it goes before a judge, as the ATF isn't a legislative body.
     
  20. KTM530XCW

    KTM530XCW Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    ...but with that said, I'm sure as hell not going to be the guinea pig
     
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