AR piston kit?

[dunnghia]

I was thinking about trying a Adams Arms piston conversion kit on one of my AR's. Cheaper Than Dirt is selling them for $267 + shipping. Does anyone have any experience with this kit?

Read More

 

[spengo]

No, but unless you have other ARs and just want to do this for fun/experimenting with new stuff, I'd advise against a piston kit.

Here is what John Noveske has to say about piston ARs:

Also, we should mention the poor choice of platform for the piston conversion on a round receiver bore as found on the M16/M4 system. All other piston type systems out there utilize a railed receiver design, like the M14, AK-47, M249, FAL and so on. The round receiver bore design used on the M4 is only acceptable for the standard op system. The carrier and bolt expand on axis with the bore under the normal gas impingement cycle, but on a piston gun, you run into off center impulse issues with carrier tilt and incorrectly designed carrier contact points. Some designs attempt to address the carrier tilt problem with over sized carrier tails and rollers. I do not believe the receiver extension should be used in this manner. I know many people are very happy with their piston weapons. This is not meant as a knock on the piston conversion systems out there, but as a philosophical dialogue focused the new physiological relationships applied to the M16/M4 platform through the introduction of an operating system which has traditionally been applied to receivers with rails for the bolt and/or carrier. I would rather see an entirely new weapon system designed for the piston from the ground up.

I know a of companies have been touting it as more "reliable" than DI, but it really isn't. It can help if you're running a suppressor and don't like gasses being blown in your face, but there other solutions like the PRI gasbuster charging handle. If you really want more reliability, use a mid-length gas system on your 14.5" or 16" carbine. Mid-length is closer to ideal pressure than the old carbine length gas system and will reduce undue wear and tear on your internals. As an added bonus, you will have less of a recoil impulse too.

 

[dunnghia]

Thanks for the info spengo. My rifle is probably more reliable DI. But it's almost worth it to me to save on cleaning time. I hate getting all the crap out from behind the lugs in the chamber. I do have two carbines to experiment with, and this Adams Arms kit makes no permanent alterations if I didn't like it. Maybe I should trade them both in for a sig 556.

 

[Hammer_Man]

Just FYI, Adams Arms supplies Smith & Wesson, and Sabre Defense with their piston operating systems. If it's good enough for those two, I'm sure it will be good enough for you.

 

[deadeye]

Try CDNN for the same kit ATI kit made by Adams arms.


<removed broken link>

 

[eldbillbo]

Piston kits are really just a good way to spend more money which is good for the economy which the brightest side to buying a piston.

still got to clean the piston

go to the piston section on ar15.com

they are NOT allowed to discuss piston vs DI there

but you will see many people discussing problems with their systems.

i have a piston its not a adams and i have had zero issues with it so far except carbon build up and rust in the piston chamber. The piston does need cleaning lots of carbon build up and rust since moisture got in it (shooting in the rain) it was stuck and took effort to open up .

but then again i never had a issue with a DI system from a quality maker.

the concern i have with pistons is replacement parts since the manufacturer of my piston has started producing a new improved design they no longer make parts for mine so if i loose part of it while cleaning well I'm out a whole system.

now with a DI system parts are everywhere and cheap and a gas block and tube rarely go bad and how can you loose them

The reviews on Adams is that they are probably top tier and a business that will probably be around for a while .

where the DI system works on a high pressure cushin of air the piston uses that high pressure air to slam a steel rod against your carrier jerking the bolt out of the chamber use the $267 and apply it towards a $400 AK if you want a piston system

i also notice more recoil and muzzle climb with my system

1 thing to keep in mind is future replacement parts lots of different pistons are being introduced some will go out of business or discontinue making them . but then again you can return to a DI when that happens.

 

[dunnghia]

I agree with the replacement parts argument. Thats why I am still in the research phase, asking the wise people on NWFs.

Now I don't have any personal experience with and piston kit, but I don't think you should have any "slam". Seems if it is installed and working correctly there shouldn't be any gap between the rod and the carrier when locked in battery.

I'm also surprised to hear of increased recoil and muzzle climb with a piston system. The extra weight (one of the negatives) towards the end of the rifle should have the opposite effect.

 

[eldbillbo]

I agree with the replacement parts argument. Thats why I am still in the research phase, asking the wise people on NWFs.

Now I don't have any personal experience with and piston kit, but I don't think you should have any "slam". Seems if it is installed and working correctly there shouldn't be any gap between the rod and the carrier when locked in battery.

I'm also surprised to hear of increased recoil and muzzle climb with a piston system. The extra weight (one of the negatives) towards the end of the rifle should have the opposite effect.

The slam is what causes the buffer tube ware the special carriers and special buffer and special cam pins and special bufffer tubes all help remendy the tilt caused but the rod punching the carrier at the top

Not trying to talk you out of it like spendo said if your just wanting to play around and try something new go for it. worse case is you end up buying a new upper receiver and buffer tube in the long run they do beat up on the upper receiver as well as the buffer tube but as one member said on ar15.com those are expendable parts i disagree with that , i look at gas rings as being expendable parts

I think your on the right track with the Adams , I think their marketing has made them one of the big sellers and i think some of the big names are starting to use them

thats probably the biggest thing to look at find out what big name companies are using what systems since they will need to service them they will carry spare parts or take over production should the manufacture go under.

 

[3 AE]

To paraphrase the famous Ivan Chesnokov on rifle design, Why you want piston for AR-15? Is not good enough as procured from(insert manufacturer here)? You think needs improvement? Then maybe find job with Army of United States! You have drinks with ghost of Eugene Stoner.Trade story of many weapons designed and details of school for engineering. Or maybe you not do this. Probably you never design weapon in whole life. You look at fine American rifle,think it need crazy Piston inside of weapon. You have disease of American Capitalist. Change thing that is fine for no reason except to be different from Direct Impingement comrades. You put overpriced flashlight on one side. You put funny looking,delicate scope on other side. Next you put piston on inside to make shameful travesty of rifle of Eugene Stoner,no? Rifle is fine. You mess it up,it only get more parts and you still have to clean it. Save $250.00 and buy many magazines of cartridges. Go to firing range and practice,practice,practice like good American soldier. You not need dumb piston put inside of rifle.

 

[motohead185]

i loved my Adams arms piston kit, it worked wonderfully on my 5.56 ar15. i would say that it is one of the best out there. let me know if you need any help with it!

 

[coop44]

To paraphrase the famous Ivan Chesnokov on rifle design, Why you want piston for AR-15? Is not good enough as procured from(insert manufacturer here)? You think needs improvement? Then maybe find job with Army of United States! You have drinks with ghost of Eugene Stoner.Trade story of many weapons designed and details of school for engineering. Or maybe you not do this. Probably you never design weapon in whole life. You look at fine American rifle,think it need crazy Piston inside of weapon. You have disease of American Capitalist. Change thing that is fine for no reason except to be different from Direct Impingement comrades. You put overpriced flashlight on one side. You put funny looking,delicate scope on other side. Next you put piston on inside to make shameful travesty of rifle of Eugene Stoner,no? Rifle is fine. You mess it up,it only get more parts and you still have to clean it. Save $250.00 and buy many magazines of cartridges. Go to firing range and practice,practice,practice like good American soldier. You not need dumb piston put inside of rifle.

hilarious, and TRUE

 

[Madwulf]

I got a rifle length Adams kit just to try it. Yeah, I had already read about bolt carrier off center torque possibility. I guess I just had to see for myself.
So far... six hundred rounds and going. (November 2010)
It seems to be working as well as the DI system it replaced, just cleaner and cooler in the reciever. No odd wear marks in the buffer tube.
However, I still have the DI setup in my oher AR.

 

[peabody]

To paraphrase the famous Ivan Chesnokov on rifle design, Why you want piston for AR-15? Is not good enough as procured from(insert manufacturer here)? You think needs improvement? Then maybe find job with Army of United States! You have drinks with ghost of Eugene Stoner.Trade story of many weapons designed and details of school for engineering. Or maybe you not do this. Probably you never design weapon in whole life. You look at fine American rifle,think it need crazy Piston inside of weapon. You have disease of American Capitalist. Change thing that is fine for no reason except to be different from Direct Impingement comrades. You put overpriced flashlight on one side. You put funny looking,delicate scope on other side. Next you put piston on inside to make shameful travesty of rifle of Eugene Stoner,no? Rifle is fine. You mess it up,it only get more parts and you still have to clean it. Save $250.00 and buy many magazines of cartridges. Go to firing range and practice,practice,practice like good American soldier. You not need dumb piston put inside of rifle.

good one !!!!!

 

[ch139]

I was thinking about trying a Adams Arms piston conversion kit on one of my AR's. Cheaper Than Dirt is selling them for $267 + shipping. Does anyone have any experience with this kit?

Curious, why would you want a piston system on your AR?

 

[revjen45]

Ask any Daewoo owner.

 

[ch139]

Ask any Daewoo owner.

OK

I'm ASSUMING you own a Daewoo.

Why would a Daewoo owner (or anybody for that matter) want a piston driven AR?

 

[eldbillbo]

OK

I'm ASSUMING you own a Daewoo.

Why would a Daewoo owner (or anybody for that matter) want a piston driven AR?

+1

That Daewoo with out run any Piston or Di Ar15 hands down and outshoot any Ak . its the ultimate hybrid

manufactures should just dump Piston Ar idea and just start making Daewoos thats what Kurt Wala the man who reserected the piston idea for the ar15 as a novelty idea then saw what a hit it was was gonna do before he passed away

 

[revjen45]

OK

I'm ASSUMING you own a Daewoo.

Why would a Daewoo owner (or anybody for that matter) want a piston driven AR?

De gustibus non desputandum.

 

[ch139]

Ask any Daewoo owner.

OK

I'm ASSUMING you own a Daewoo.

Why would a Daewoo owner (or anybody for that matter) want a piston driven AR?

De gustibus non desputandum.

WOW! SWEET! You can post in Latin! And a Daewoo too? (again, I ASSUME) Still, this is not a matter of taste. Rather, it's a bunch of marketing hype BS many have bought into.

<removed broken link>

...and despite all the cool guy linguistics, the question remains: Why would a Daewoo owner (or anybody for that matter) want a piston driven AR? Just to satisfy your palate? Really?

 

[Markjz]

if cleaning the gas port is any thing like on an M240 I'll pass