AR pistol ? Washington state laws.

[Diamondback]

I have been toying with the idea as well. Thinking about the SBPDW on a 14.5" pistol in 223 wylde with a King Comp.

My thought was "full-on Milspec M4, other than the Semi triggerpack and SBM4 brace." That way, if we ever get to SBR Dereg it's as simple as "unscrew one tube, rescrew the other and I'm at full Standard Issue".

 

[AK0perator47]

My thought was "full-on Milspec M4, other than the Semi triggerpack and SBM4 brace." That way, if we ever get to SBR Dereg it's as simple as "unscrew one tube, rescrew the other and I'm at full Standard Issue".

I like it as well but I'm too lazy for all that. That's why I just build another one that way.

 

[Diamondback]

I'd also be handing the pistol backend down to a new pistol build.

 

[partsed]

@jordanka16 What brand of scope and mount do you use on that??

 

[jordanka16]

@jordanka16 What brand of scope and mount do you use on that??

Leupold VX freedom 1.5-4x20 with the AR reticle, and a leupold mark 2 IMS.

 

[uberguy]

Sure you can, you can't be in the business of manufacturing them for sale. But if you put it together with the intention to keep it, then some time later decide you dont like it you can sell it.

How would you go about doing that, (legally) without a serial number?
Any FFL will require one for their bookkeeping on a transfer. Needs a S/N to sell, lawfully.

 

[jordanka16]

How would you go about doing that, (legally) without a serial number?
Any FFL will require one for their bookkeeping on a transfer. Needs a S/N to sell, lawfully.

I think in order to sell it you would have to add one, although anyone can add one to a gun you made yourself.

It is not strictly required to have a SN to transfer one though, before the GCA manufacturers were not required to add serial numbers to their guns, and a lot of cheaper old guns do not have them.

 

[uberguy]

I think in order to sell it you would have to add one, although anyone can add one to a gun you made yourself.

It is not strictly required to have a SN to transfer one though, before the GCA manufacturers were not required to add serial numbers to their guns, and a lot of cheaper old guns do not have them.

ATF Answers Questions on 80 percent lower receivers
referencing the ATF: "5. When does a receiver need to have markings and/or serial numbers?
Receivers that meet the definition of a "firearm" must have markings, including a serial number.
See 27 CFR § 478.92 (Firearm manufacturers marking requirements). "

The required serial number must be unique and meet ATF markings regulations. To emboss a S/N, you are supposed to be a licensed manufacturer. There are some grey areas on this topic, but if you finished an 80% lower for personal use, it's now a 100% firearm and must have a S/N to sell it, unless manufactured before some year in the distant past before S/Ns were required and the burden of proof is on you.

There's the bit about OR and WA requiring all transfers to be done through an FFL and I seriously doubt any FFL will agree to transfer a non-serial number firearm, none I've dealt with anyway.

Is it really worth the legal and financial risk to find out which of us may be right?

 

[jordanka16]

ATF Answers Questions on 80 percent lower receivers
referencing the ATF: "5. When does a receiver need to have markings and/or serial numbers?
Receivers that meet the definition of a "firearm" must have markings, including a serial number.
See 27 CFR § 478.92 (Firearm manufacturers marking requirements). "

The required serial number must be unique and meet ATF markings regulations. To emboss a S/N, you are supposed to be a licensed manufacturer. There are some grey areas on this topic, but if you finished an 80% lower for personal use, it's now a 100% firearm and must have a S/N to sell it, unless manufactured before some year in the distant past.

Is it really worth the legal and financial risk to find out which of us may be right?

Those requirements apply to licensed manufacturers, who for sure must mark their guns with a SN and a manufacturer name. If you make your own gun, you don't have to have a SN on it. Like I said, if you want to sell it I believe it has to have one, but you can certainly sell an 80% lower you made yourself, you just don't want to make a habit of it.

 

[uberguy]

We all understand you can complete an 80% lower, or heck - make one from scratch if you have the talent FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. I say you can't legally sell it after you do.
We are talking about a completed lower that started as an 80% lower, gets finished into a 100% firearm, pistol or rifle - that you later decide not to keep.
Like I said, I don't believe any credible FFL would touch transferring a personally made firearm without legitimate markings and a manufacturers S/N.
I believe 1968 was the year the ATF began requiring serial numbers for all commercial firearms manufactured after that year. So far as I know, all commercial ARs have always had S/Ns.
Naturally there are lots of things you can do of questionable legality - If you believe you can, without a manufacturers S/N or with some homemade number crap, best of luck.

 

[Diamondback]

Straight from ATF:

Can an individual now manufacture these firearms and sell them?
Any person "engaged in the business" as a manufacturer must obtain a license from ATF.

 The term "engaged in the business" means— (A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured.

Can an individual now manufacture these firearms and sell them? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

So, this seems to say "as long as it's not a regular activity for you and it's not done with INTENT of profit..." However, even in the best-case scenario I would ONLY transfer such a weapon to someone known to me PERSONALLY for an extended time (basically my GF or my frat brothers only, at this point), and would have their name engraved on it at time of transfer.

 

[uberguy]

Maybe we can agree forums are a poor place to get valid legal advice and that GF/frat bros would fold like a cheap suit if accused by the law of being in possession of a contraband firearm. Maybe not.

 

[Diamondback]

I did stipulate that that would be even in a theoretical BEST CASE scenario, and I have repeatedly stated in my history that I'm no lawyer. (As for my fraternity brothers, there are only three of them and we've all put our lives in each other's hands before. The girlfriend... well, any transfer would require a wedding ring first.)

You always looking for a new target cornflake bowl to pee in, or is today just special?

 

[uberguy]

Nope - I just said I think it's illegal to sell an 80% lower that you completed for personal use. If you don't, fine by me, I could care less what you like with your cornflakes.

 

[11Charlie]

OK gentlemen lets play nice and remember rule 1 please.

 

[pizza_pablo]

Nope - I just said I think it's illegal to sell an 80% lower that you completed for personal use. If you don't, fine by me, I could care less what you like with your cornflakes.

So , you care more?

 

[Alexx1401]

Given how cheap 80% lowers are I would not sell one I finished. If I finish one, build a gun, then later wanted to sell? I would sell all the parts and keep or destroy the lower. To me it just would not be worth the potential hassle down the road if the gun falls into hands that use it in a crime and someone says "he sold it to me". If I wanted to sell I would just tell buyer you can have all the parts, then either make your own lower or buy one.