AR Pistol Questions

[JayTee]

Hey folks! I'm new here and also a soon-to-be gun owner. Going to be getting an AR pistol. My understanding is that a barrel under 16", on overall length of 26" or less, and a stabilizing brace qualify a firearm as a pistol. Is that determination correct?? Can I add a vertical grip? If I have a shorter barrel like 9", can I replace it with a longer barrel of any kind even if it exceeds 26"?? That seemed inconclusive amidst my own research. Please help educate me. Any laws/text you'd be willing to cite would be appreciated! Thanks from a new member!!!

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[Ops]

ar15.com

 

[Unicorn]

Ask those same questions as if you were talking about a Glock or a 1911 (if you have to have the option to make a rifle, keep the Mec-Tec carbine conversion unit in mind). It's the exact same thing.

My understanding is that a barrel under 16", on overall length of 26" or less, and a stabilizing brace qualify a firearm as a pistol. Is that determination correct??
Yes, that's correct.

Can I add a vertical grip?
No. That would make it an AOW, an NFA firearm. So you could if you wanted to spend the $200 on a form 1 tax stamp, or $5 for a Form 4 and whatever the FFL with SOT charged to put it together. You can use something like Magpuls Angled Vertical Grip (don't ask why that's ok... nobody know).

If I have a shorter barrel like 9", can I replace it with a longer barrel of any kind even if it exceeds 26"??
Yes, but it does change the classification. Once it hits 26 inches it become a "firearm," so an "other" meaning neither handgun nor long gun.

 

[Flopsweat]

You're pretty close, and Ops is right about the AR15 site. They have a ton of information. My take on the pistol/rifle thing is this (and this is NOT legal advice): If you buy an AR pistol, with or without the wrist brace it's a pistol. If you decide to modify the pistol, there are a few bafflingly stupid laws about what you can and can't change. So for a first time buy, you're doing it right. Buy one that's already made. Under 26 inches does not necessarily make it a pistol (it makes it not a rifle), so don't change the overall length without fully understanding the laws (and "rules") surrounding this. Vertical forend grips are not OK on a pistol, but are OK on a rifle or a firearm (yes, that is a classification, not even kidding). Angled forend grips are apparently not regulated.

Are you confused enough yet? Good, now here are some suggestions:
1) I don't give legal advice. Everything above is to illustrate that you should be careful.
2) If you buy a pistol at a gun store you can be pretty sure it's really a pistol.
3) If you're going to change anything, go to ARFCOM and read up first.
4) Ear protection - use lots. It's going to be louder than a rifle.
5) Enjoy! They're lots of fun.

 

[JayTee]

Ask those same questions as if you were talking about a Glock or a 1911 (if you have to have the option to make a rifle, keep the Mec-Tec carbine conversion unit in mind). It's the exact same thing.

My understanding is that a barrel under 16", on overall length of 26" or less, and a stabilizing brace qualify a firearm as a pistol. Is that determination correct??
Yes, that's correct.

Can I add a vertical grip?
No. That would make it an AOW, an NFA firearm. So you could if you wanted to spend the $200 on a form 1 tax stamp, or $5 for a Form 4 and whatever the FFL with SOT charged to put it together. You can use something like Magpuls Angled Vertical Grip (don't ask why that's ok... nobody know).

If I have a shorter barrel like 9", can I replace it with a longer barrel of any kind even if it exceeds 26"??
Yes, but it does change the classification. Once it hits 26 inches it become a "firearm," so an "other" meaning neither handgun nor long gun.

Haha Yeah the underbarrel grip thing is pretty silly.

If it becomes a "firearm" after 26", is that a legal modification without modifying other parts?

 

[JayTee]

You're pretty close, and Ops is right about the AR15 site. They have a ton of information. My take on the pistol/rifle thing is this (and this is NOT legal advice): If you buy an AR pistol, with or without the wrist brace it's a pistol. If you decide to modify the pistol, there are a few bafflingly stupid laws about what you can and can't change. So for a first time buy, you're doing it right. Buy one that's already made. Under 26 inches does not necessarily make it a pistol (it makes it not a rifle), so don't change the overall length without fully understanding the laws (and "rules") surrounding this. Vertical forend grips are not OK on a pistol, but are OK on a rifle or a firearm (yes, that is a classification, not even kidding). Angled forend grips are apparently not regulated.

Are you confused enough yet? Good, now here are some suggestions:
1) I don't give legal advice. Everything above is to illustrate that you should be careful.
2) If you buy a pistol at a gun store you can be pretty sure it's really a pistol.
3) If you're going to change anything, go to ARFCOM and read up first.
4) Ear protection - use lots. It's going to be louder than a rifle.
5) Enjoy! They're lots of fun.

It's certainly enough vague text to get anyone confused haha Angled foregrip it is! Thanks for the feedback. I'll check out ARFCOM and the AR-15 website.

 

[Flopsweat]

It's certainly enough vague text to get anyone confused haha Angled foregrip it is! Thanks for the feedback. I'll check out ARFCOM and the AR-15 website.

I could probably spend 2 hours typing and not cover enough. Also to clarify, ARFCOM is a nickname for AR15.com. There are several threads there covering this subject in great detail, so if you do a lot of site searches before asking basic questions I'm sure they will appreciate it. Also they are not exactly shy over there, so expect some occasional "sailor talk" and elbow joggling. Not suggesting you will or won't like that. Just sayin'.

 

[JayTee]

I could probably spend 2 hours typing and not cover enough. Also to clarify, ARFCOM is a nickname for AR15.com. There are several threads there covering this subject in great detail, so if you do a lot of site searches before asking basic questions I'm sure they will appreciate it. Also they are not exactly shy over there, so expect some occasional "sailor talk" and elbow joggling. Not suggesting you will or won't like that. Just sayin'.

Thanks for the heads up! I'll exhaust my searches Are suppressors legal here in Washington?

 

[JedB]

Thanks for the heads up! I'll exhaust my searches Are suppressors legal here in Washington?

You could also check the NFA specific section here.

NFA Weapon Discussion

Questions and discussion about machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, suppressors, destructive devices, and AOW's

www.northwestfirearms.com

There's a lot of good information.

 

[JayTee]

You could also check the NFA specific section here.

NFA Weapon Discussion

Questions and discussion about machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, suppressors, destructive devices, and AOW's

www.northwestfirearms.com

There's a lot of good information.

Thanks

 

[User 1234]

Buy an AR lower, not the assembled gun. Currently no state paperwork and no waiting period. Instant federal background check and one page federal form (4473).

Buy an assembled pistol upper somewhere else (Aero is a good choice for good quality and a reasonable price and is a Tacoma company). Put the pistol upper on your lower receiver simply by using the two push pins.

You have to ensure your pistol lower has a brace and not a stock. Manufactures' websites usually have a copy of ATF letters determining that their brace is a brace and not a stock. Kak Shockwave brave, etc.

If you buy a complete pistol then there is the federal form (4473) and the state paperwork on top of it and a waiting period.

 

[Tony617]

I started this thread in semi-automatic pistol thread.

AR15 Pistol

 

[hongkong2]

If it's a pistol then a vertical grip is a definite no no!

 

[cookie]

Shoot one before you buy one.

 

[transient]

...
4) Ear protection - use lots. It's going to be louder than a rifle.
...

Shoot one before you buy one.

Definitely take this advice. I only shoot at indoor ranges, and an AR pistol sounds like a stick of dynamite going off every time the trigger is pulled. The noise convinced me to get my AR pistol in 9mm instead of 223/5.56.

 

[PaulB47]

I don't get AR pistols. They seem to be the answer to a question that nobody asked.

 

[transient]

I don't get AR pistols. They seem to be the answer to a question that nobody asked.

I'm enjoying my 9mm. It's the only AR-platform gun I have (although it's blowback), so I get all the tinker-toy satisfaction of adding furniture, lights, sights, etc. The recoil is a nice "thump" or "push" (maybe thanks to the hydraulic buffer I added, but probably mostly because of the weight), instead of the "snap" you get with a normal pistol, and it's fun for me to shoot at 25 yards, which for me would be pretty pointless with a normal pistol - I'm just not that good of a shot, or that patient.

 

[Flopsweat]

I don't get AR pistols. They seem to be the answer to a question that nobody asked.

They are more compact than a rifle and there are different laws for carry and storage in a vehicle. With a good linear compensator, the concussion is not so bad. Or like mentioned above, go with a 9mm.

 

[Alexx1401]

They are more compact than a rifle and there are different laws for carry and storage in a vehicle. With a good linear compensator, the concussion is not so bad. Or like mentioned above, go with a 9mm.

Yep. Had a couple shooting on in .223 next to me at the indoor range a little ago. DAMN it was LOUD in there. Sounded like they had some kind of magnum until I saw the empties. Now in pistol caliber they are a LOT of fun even indoors. Not to mention the advantage in this state of laws making them a handgun.

 

[titsonritz]

I don't get AR pistols. They seem to be the answer to a question that nobody asked.

No true, for those that would want an SBR but not go down the NFA path, a pistol is the closest one can get w/o spending the 2 bills and waiting for approval from the king.