AR "Firearm" project, not a handgun or rifle.

[arakboss]

If you are triggered by useless firearm projects, feelings of disdain for the ATF, memes about the ATF shooting puppers, I would recommend you move on to the next thread. I don't want anybody looking in to the mirror to find themselves in this condition.








This thread welcomes BATF Fanboi club members to espouse their support for BATF extortion fees:

National - Form 1 or Not to Form 1?

My Firearm project thread has diverted into a BATF Form 1 fan club thread. I am hoping the Form 1 discussion will move to this thread so my Firearm project thread can get back on topic. My position on everything BATF is it shouldn't be happening. The BATF is going above and beyond to restrict...

www.northwestfirearms.com

All of this discussion about braced pistol restrictions has inspired me to build a Firearm with new lower receiver. This project should dovetail with my AR pistol build project.

Goal of Firearm project is to have a gun with 12ish inch barrel, round extension tube (no stock or brace, 2nd vertical grip and OAL just over 26 inches. OAL will be measured from end of extension tube to muzzle end of barrel (not counting muzzle device)

If you have built, bought or have plans to build a gun like this please share your experiences with the firearm and or build project.

Read More

 

[red442joe]

Is this to create a "firearm" that is Not a Pistol, and Not a Rifle?

Joe

 

[arakboss]

Is this to create a "firearm" that is Not a Pistol, and Not a Rifle?

Joe

Yes.

Edit: I guess they are popular in Connecticut because they aren't subject to the same restrictions as AR rifles and pistols. Most of the commercially manufactured ones come with brace attached. I want to make one with custom round extension tube, no brace.

This outfit sells a few of them, all with braces at this point in time. I'm guessing those may have to come off by August. Depends on how the ATF views braces on "firearms". I will avoid that bother by running bare ext tube only on mine.

DS-15 | AR-15 | DS-10 | AR-10 | DS-9 | AR-9 | Firearm | Other | Non-NFA

Dark Storm Industries DS-15 DS-10 DS-9 AR-15 AR-10 AR-9 PCC Other Firearm Non-NFA Modern Sporting Rifles legal and compliant for Connecticut. Call 800-963-7700

www.dark-storm.com

 

[Kruel J]

Sounds like a run of the mill AR build. Without a stock. Your options are plentiful and your parts needed are as basic as they come. With no stock and the FG are you looking to fire this from the hip type of thing? Not much of a shooter in that configuration but I guess it saves you money on optics.

Have you considered a Form 1?

 

[arakboss]

Sounds like a run of the mill AR build. Without a stock. Your options are plentiful and your parts needed are as basic as they come. With no stock and the FG are you looking to fire this from the hip type of thing? Not much of a shooter in that configuration but I guess it saves you money on optics.

Have you considered a Form 1?

I have considered a Form 1 but I am waiting for a 90% off sale.

 

[arakboss]

My thought is to start out with fresh lower but run it as pistol first then slap the 2nd grip on it. I am going to run a 9mm barrel first and I want to run a double buffer set up in the extension tube. The double buffer set up would allow the maximum amount of buffer weight adjustment for blow back operated bolts. I am not sure what length of buffers I will be able to squeeze in a tube that conforms to pistol length of pull limitations and still allows for cycling of cartridges but only one way to find out.

 

[red442joe]

Yes.

Edit: I guess they are popular in Connecticut because they aren't subject to the same restrictions as AR rifles and pistols. Most of the commercially manufactured ones come with brace attached. I want to make one with custom round extension tube, no brace.

This outfit sells a few of them, all with braces at this point in time. I'm guessing those may have to come off by August. Depends on how the ATF views braces on "firearms". I will avoid that bother by running bare ext tube only on mine.

DS-15 | AR-15 | DS-10 | AR-10 | DS-9 | AR-9 | Firearm | Other | Non-NFA

Dark Storm Industries DS-15 DS-10 DS-9 AR-15 AR-10 AR-9 PCC Other Firearm Non-NFA Modern Sporting Rifles legal and compliant for Connecticut. Call 800-963-7700

www.dark-storm.com

Michigan has ephed up laws about pistol, firearm, rifle, as presented by AR platform.
Seems pistol build is "most" beneficial because you can configure as any of the three, and back.
Pistol can be carried on CPL, as well as loaded in a car; rifles can not. "Firearm", may possibly be allowed loaded in a vehicle without CPL (not a pistol) or since not a rifle (forbidden loaded).
I always thought an AR "pistol" just under 26" with a foam covered buffer tube (max bbl length but under 26" oal) could be shouldered yet avoid sbr constrictions/bs.
But I am not fully up on AR measurements by configuration....
Btw, I think, MI calls any firearm(gun definition) UNDER 26" a "pistol", OVER 26" a rifle, therefore AT 26" is NEITHER. It seems there are AR builders that try very hard to hit exactly 26".
I think there may be some AK folders that function folded, that are under 26" that can be carried on CPL.
This is not my area of expertise....

Joe

 

[Kruel J]

My thought is to start out with fresh lower but run it as pistol first then slap the 2nd grip on it. I am going to run a 9mm barrel first and I want to run a double buffer set up in the extension tube. The double buffer set up would allow the maximum amount of buffer weight adjustment for blow back operated bolts. I am not sure what length of buffers I will be able to squeeze in a tube that conforms to pistol length of pull limitations and still allows for cycling of cartridges but only one way to find out.

9mm barrel "first"? Are you going to be changing calibers on this build as you go? What "pistol LOP limitations" are you referring to? The 26" OAL? Sorry, just trying to follow you here.

 

[arakboss]

9mm barrel "first"? Are you going to be changing calibers on this build as you go? What "pistol LOP limitations" are you referring to? The 26" OAL? Sorry, just trying to follow you here.

I want to be able to run different cartridges in this firearm. 9mm may end up being the only blow back cartridge I run. I have read that there are maximum length of pull rules with pistols, maybe that only applies to pistols with braces? I still have to research that. I am going to aim for 26.5 to 28 overall length so I can run the 2nd grip.

I would like to run an extension tube that is as long as legally allowed so I can try to stuff two buffers in there. I was looking at something like this buffer but it wouldn't give me as much freedom for buffer weight adjustment.

Heavy Buffers 9mm-Q-T Buffer

The Heavy Buffers 9mm-QT Buffer was originally made because of parts breakage due to fast cyclic rates. This buffer slows down your entire system and it does not have weak points like many other buffers.

www.strongsidetactical.com

I would like to be able to cycle light bunny fart loads up to +p+ loads without having to disassemble the buffer and change out weights.

 

[arakboss]

I was able to stuff a carbine spring and two AR15 carbine buffers in an A2 type tube. I was able to pull the charging handle all the way back and lock the bolt. It took at least double, maybe triple the effort to pull back the charging handle so the spring will have to be substantially shortened.

 

[arakboss]

I was able to stuff a carbine spring and two AR15 carbine buffers in an A2 type tube. I was able to pull the charging handle all the way back and lock the bolt. It took at least double, maybe triple the effort to pull back the charging handle so the spring will have to be substantially shortened.

View attachment 1127668


View attachment 1127667

Assuming no length of pull issue with the extension tube, for 9mm I will run the deepest buffer with the heaviest weights. To adjust the buffer weight I can pop out and exchange the top buffer with another buffer from empty to H3 to adjust for whatever load I am shooting.

Edit: Also running with this ext tube I could run barrels as short as 9ish inches which would be fantastic as I already have a number of 10.5 inch barrels. Next step is to look into length of pull legality on pistols and Firearms.

 

[arakboss]

Regarding Length of pull on extension tube only AR, it looks to me like it doesn't apply. Every mention of it is in regards to somebody measuring a firearm with a brace. If anybody has link to BATF info that would indicate that there is a maximum length of pull for pistol without a brace please share that link here.

 

[Kruel J]

Assuming no length of pull issue with the extension tube, for 9mm I will run the deepest buffer with the heaviest weights. To adjust the buffer weight I can pop out and exchange the top buffer with another buffer from empty to H3 to adjust for whatever load I am shooting.

Edit: Also running with this ext tube I could run barrels as short as 9ish inches which would be fantastic as I already have a number of 10.5 inch barrels. Next step is to look into length of pull legality on pistols and Firearms.

I haven't seen any LOP requirements listed anywhere. OAL is all that is addressed.

Regarding Length of pull on extension tube only AR, it looks to me like it doesn't apply. Every mention of it is in regards to somebody measuring a firearm with a brace. If anybody has link to BATF info that would indicate that there is a maximum length of pull for pistol without a brace please share that link here.

LOL you seem to be having a discussion with yourself here.

 

[arakboss]

I haven't seen any LOP requirements listed anywhere. OAL is all that is addressed.


LOL you seem to be having a discussion with yourself here.

I find myself to be pretty good company Sometimes I add posts instead of editing previous post to record thoughts on the topic at hand. Otherwise I tend to forget them. Ideas often come and go quickly in my mind.

 

[Kruel J]

I find myself to be pretty good company Sometimes I add posts instead of editing previous post to record thoughts on the topic at hand. Otherwise I tend to forget them. Ideas often come and go quickly in my mind.

You should carry a notebook and a pen.

 

[Member 53328]

This is a head scratcher…. For the amount of time, energy, and money it's more beneficial to just form 1 it…..

 

[arakboss]

This is a head scratcher…. For the amount of time, energy, and money it's more beneficial to just form 1 it…..

View attachment 1127705

I appreciate the advice to pay the same people who are making a game out of infringing on our rights, a $200 extortion fee. I don't think that will help me with my project(s) at this point, so I will take a pass. If I were to pay the $200 extortion fee so they won't jail and fine me for throwing a $10 plastic stock on my 14.7 inch barreled firearm, it would be exclusive to a single lower. Should I decide I want to switch the upper over to my PX-9 Glock lower then I am back in the same boat. Or I could form 1 the PX-9 lower and then forget about using DI uppers chambered in other cartridges. Or I could pay $400 in extortion fees and form 1 two lowers. These are fun gun projects that won't require a stock to use. I won't be going to war with them or defending myself with them. I have pretty much all the parts I need except for possibly the right length 9mm barrel so doing a form 1 isn't going to save me money and I would rather support a business with my money instead of donating it to the same thugs who are stripping us of our firearm freedoms.

I don't like paying $200 for vehicle registration but I can convince myself that some of that money may be going to fix roads I drive on. What has the BATF done for me lately? Not much!

Edit: Sorry for rant but BATF sucks big donkey.....

 

[Member 53328]

I appreciate the advice to pay the same people who are making a game out of infringing on our rights, a $200 extortion fee. I don't think that will help me with my project(s) at this point, so I will take a pass. If I were to pay the $200 extortion fee so they won't jail and fine me for throwing a $10 plastic stock on my 14.7 inch barreled firearm, it would be exclusive to a single lower. Should I decide I want to switch the upper over to my PX-9 Glock lower then I am back in the same boat. Or I could form 1 the PX-9 lower and then forget about using DI uppers chambered in other cartridges. Or I could pay $400 in extortion fees and form 1 two lowers. These are fun gun projects that won't require a stock to use. I won't be going to war with them or defending myself with them. I have pretty much all the parts I need except for possibly the right length 9mm barrel so doing a form 1 isn't going to save me money and I would rather support a business with my money instead of donating it to the same thugs who are stripping us of our firearm freedoms.

I don't like paying $200 for vehicle registration but I can convince myself that some of that money may be going to fix roads I drive on. What has the BATF done for me lately? Not much!

Aren't You playing the exact same game by building something in a specific way just to fall in the "legal" realm? You can justify one over the other because one doesn't require a tax stamp…. You are still obeying the "thugs" that are stripping us of our rights. You're just not paying the 200 dollar price point to have a functional rifle. But we live in America so you are free to do what you like my friend.

 

[arakboss]

Aren't You playing the exact same game by building something in a specific way just to fall in the "legal" realm? You can justify one over the other because one doesn't require a tax stamp…. You are still obeying the "thugs" that are stripping us of our rights. You're just not paying the 200 dollar price point to have a functional rifle. But we live in America so you are free to do what you like my friend.

View attachment 1127732

I am a law abiding citizen. If I can legally have fun with my firearms without paying $200 to the BATF, that is the route I will go.

 

[Member 53328]

I am a law abiding citizen. If I can legally have fun with my firearms without paying $200 to the BATF, that is the route I will go.

That's fair.