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AR / black rifle questions

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by edogg, Dec 9, 2012.

  1. edogg

    edogg Western Washington Active Member

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    I'm in the market for a black rifle soon and am trying to decide what to get so I'm turning to the NW firearms crew for thoughts. I'm leaning toward an AR because my range will only let me shoot up to 5.56 or 7.62x39. So .308 is out. If any of you have other suggestions of a fun black rifle, I'm all ears.

    I can't quite decide if I want to buy a new rifle or used. I'm leaning toward a new Colt 6920 or LMT Defender. I've seen some used rifles for sale that have some mods done to them. I hesitate to buy a used rifle with mods because I don't know the quality of smithing that went into installing the mods. Is my concern unfounded? Or are AR mods (handguards, barrels, triggers) something that is easy to do and really hard to screw up? The only mod I'm interested in is a SOPMOD stock and a rod dot or low power scope.

    I'm also considering the Colt 6720 with the lightweight barrel. Is barrel durability any concern for an average plinker? My rifle use is pretty much as a range toy so I'm not going to go crazy with lots of rounds shot very quickly. At the very most, I might try a black rifle league shoot or two.
     
  2. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    Colt 6720 is a good choice that barrel was designed to handle full auto fire and since you can't own a full auto without spending the big bucks that barrel will never reach its full potential its like driving a corvette below the speed limit.

    Colt while under the government contract went through a lot of quality control and the civilian parts came off the same assembly lines as the Govs parts and under the same quality control. The 6920 is a great rifle so is the LMT you can not go wrong with with either . A lot of people scoff at colts cause they think they are paying extra for the name and they are right to some degree but they are better quality than the $600 special which if fine for most shooters cause we are not at war and we can't own FA rifles so the kind of quality in a TRUE mil spec quality rifle is not necessary but its nice to have.

    The good thing about colt in regards to buying used and not getting a frankinstien rifle is all the important parts are marked with a "C" like the barrel, bolt, carrier, as well as the receivers so look for those while buying used a drop in rail is just that but some have floating rails that do require the barrel nut to come off and they have to be torques. I have read here on this board where guys have bought bubbas hack job where bubba forgot to tighten the barrel nut enough or did not index the gas block correctly so they had issues, but its pretty rare as the AR15 is a pretty simple rifle to build and its pretty hard to get it wrong .
     
  3. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'd be leery of any kind of mechanical modifications unless the seller can verify they were done at a reputible shop. And I'm not really aware of any local reputable shops, so that means Virginia Arms, ADCO, G&R, etc.. AR smithing is relatively easy (everything should be drop-in), but that just means more gumbies attempt modifications they're not qualified to make. I have been a semi-professional (hobby that paid for itself) AR smith for the better part of the last decade, and man... I've seen some stupid bubblegum come out of peoples' garages.

    However... buying used/unmolested is an excellent way to save a couple hundred bucks. It's pretty hard to hurt a quality carbine in any way that's going to affect performance, so I'd suggest that route.
     
  4. edogg

    edogg Western Washington Active Member

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    Thanks for the replies, guys.

    Thanks - that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I figured that the barrels probably aren't as durable as an M4 barrel, but I'll never run up against its limitations. Especially since full auto isn't legal here.

    This is my thought too. I'm ok paying extra for a better rifle and a name brand. I also know that if I decide to sell it down the road (probably never, but you never know), I want the brand name value. I'm sure a $600-800 rifle would shoot better than I can and be perfectly reliable for my needs. But since I'm only buying one, I'm ok buying spending $1200 - $2000 on a rifle. I don't like to buy things twice. ;)


    This is the thing I'm afraid of with buying a modded rifle. When reading some of the ads, there are some great sounding mods. But I'd hate to buy the one where the amateur screwed something up. Maybe this is an instance where I have the seller show me a receipt from a good shop.
     
  5. edogg

    edogg Western Washington Active Member

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    Oh yeah...another question. If I buy a Colt, how easy is it to install an LMT SOPMOD stock?
     
  6. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Pull down on the M4 lever, slide off... pull down on the SOPMOD lever, slide on.
     
  7. edogg

    edogg Western Washington Active Member

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    Hmm, sounds real hard. ;)

    That sounds like something that this amateur can handle... :)
     
  8. jonn5335

    jonn5335 Longview Active Member

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    Very easy about 10 seconds.
     
  9. codezilla

    codezilla United States Member

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    Takes about 10 seconds. You just pull the adjustment lever downward and it slides off/on the buffer tube. I doubt the Colt 6720 comes with a commercial tube so you should be fine.
     
  10. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    You're over thinking this buddy.
    I mean that in the nicest way.
    $1200 for a plain jane AR is ludacris, especially a lightweight barrel, you'd essentially be payingthe same price if not more than a standard profile barrel.

    Other than manufacturing their own barrel, there is little one here could bubba on his AR unless he was already mechanically inclined, this is different from the other platforms however..i.e. Saiga 12s, AKM variants, FAL variants G3 variants..etc. With the aluminum receivers very little can be done by the garage gunsmith that wouldn't be incredibly apparent at first glance. Every parton the AR is essentially a drop in.

    If you honestly want.the comfort of owning something that costs twice what it should then at the very least you bought peace of mind, but don't get too carried away with the keyboard commandos telling you brand name overpriced (More oftenthan not with a key few) ARs are better than any other.
    The components that make a difference especially in competition and reliability are:
    The barrel, Compensator, buffer, buffer spring, FCG (this one I've found to be optional), MAGAZINE and sights and/or optic.

    And even then, a bottom of the barrel parts frankenAR will hold it's own against MANY brand name "UltraReliable"MilSpecZombieKillinSpaceAgeTacticalAbsolutelyAverageStandardWonderRifles that still suffer from every potential failure ALL ARs suffer from.
     
  11. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    Wait for it ....


    Get out the popcorn and get ready for the show. :eatpop::starwars::pound::deadhorse:


    To each their own. Now lets discuss DI vs Piston. :poke:
     
  12. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    So for the last half century, the quality... oops, I'll put quotes around that- the "quality" AR gun and parts manufacturers have slowly built a reputation for reliability and slowly become the more expensive options NOT because they're better, but only because some internet commandos think so?

    It all makes sense now.
     
  13. osprey

    osprey NW WA Active Member

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  14. edogg

    edogg Western Washington Active Member

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    I had a feeling I was opening a can of worms...

    Like I mentioned before, I'm ok with spending extra money on the brand name. To some folks, that's just nuts...but to each their own.

    Maybe to offset any crap flinging in this thread, I'll start one called "puppies, who loves em?" ;)

    Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express
     
  15. andreys21

    andreys21 Milwaukie, OR Active Member

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    look into BCM, Spike's, Daniel Defense, LMT, LaRue. I'd stay away from RRA, ArmaLite, Bushmaster, Stag and basically anything you can find at any big box store such as wally world, fisherman's or sportsman's. Then again, what do I know, my first AR cost me $2,300 and my second $1,600; both are pistons.What can I say, I like my guns to be reliable and low maintenance. You get what you pay for: No failures, very little cleaning and chugs everything I feed it. I think this is a pretty big can of worms here, there is enough for everyone. Eat up and let the flames begin LOL.
     
  16. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    There's always one. The list from andreys21 is pretty spot on, though again in that range I'd drop Spikes from THAT list. Nothing wrong with them, but for the $$ can get better imho.

    At $1k take your pick from LMT, BCM or some of the boutique shops with quality, $1-$2K take your pick but spec it well. At that price I'd take my pick of uppers from BCM/LMT/Noveske- add in Seekins/WOA/etc depending on what you want. Build your lower and choose the lower you want, add a Geislee trigger, Bad-*** ambi safety and a Vltor A5 stock and be good.
     
  17. Muddslinger12

    Muddslinger12 Vancouver Active Member

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    What are the failures that "All ARs suffer from"?

    Also what is the different in a "pistol driven AR" as opposed to what?

    Does bein Piston driven help it not suffer those failures?

    I been looking into the whole AR vs AK thing and going off the poll on the homepage seems like there is a pretty clear winner, atleast in popularity. I just wanna be sure a AR would be reliable and last along time so it would be something I would be proud to pass down the family line. Personally I love the look of the AK with Wooden Furniture, but I am not lookin for a rifle that wins a beauty contest or popularity contest I just want one that will stand the test of time. And be reliable even if it takes a beating from the elements while out camping and such.
     
  18. osprey

    osprey NW WA Active Member

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    Ar's are fine in stock form but they are operated by direct impingment. All this means is a small portion of the hot gases goin down barrel are re-routed to the receiver to cycle the bolt. Some feel that this is a weakness and will prematurely cause the action to foul and not cycle. AK's Fals others use a piston that acts on the bolt and confines the contaminates of this hot gas stream to this piston chamber. Hard to argue with this logic and it works very well. On the other hand most of us dont shoot thousands of rounds without cleaning and basically on a good running DI AR that is what it takes before you will notice any ill effects of this system. That in a nutshell is why some like the piston driven modded AR's.
     
  19. Ligito

    Ligito Oregon Active Member

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    Remember, that M1 Garand, M1 carbine and I believe also the M1A and M14, were all piston shooters.
     
  20. FarmerTed1971

    FarmerTed1971 Portland, Oregon, United States Well-Known Member

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    Get a Colt. No regrets.