AR & AK 25 yd shots.

[Member 3687]

While not being there I cannot say what the folks where doing but I do know that most rifles have the about the same amount of bullet climb at 25 yards as it does bullet drop at 100 yards. When we mount scopes at the sporting goods store I work weekends at we tell the folks to start out at 25 yards shoot 1 to 2 rounds adjust the scope to match then go out to 100 it save a lot of ammo as right and left don’t change much and you are usually on paper to make final adjustments.

So they could be just zeroing the weapon.

Also you need to start somewhere as it sounds like some of them are new shooters if they are not hitting the target at 25 yards so starting at 100 or 200 could be an unsafe condition as they do not know where the bullets are going.

I do agree as I see it at some of the ranges around here folks do not practice long range at all. At most they shoot at the 100 yard targets from a bench and nobody shoots from kneeling or prone any more even though in battle you will be using them most. Not too many shooting benches in battle.

Maybe they are looking at a SHTF in the city where most of the action will be within 50 yards or less as you will be going from building to building or from car to car.

Even though I agree we all need to practice at different ranges those folks paid their money to shoot at the gun range so they should have the choice to choose what distance they want to shot from.

Just my opinion.

 

[erudne]

Your logic is about as bass-akwards as it gets.
If you cant hit paper at 25 yards you will just be wasting lead at 200.

It's good to know that your military training prepared you to be a keyboard commando instead of offering help to an obviously new shooter.
You spent a lot of time in the kitchen, didnt you?

A walking advert for post-delivery abortion

 

[sadiesassy]

I think when I did some 200 yds shots it was click, 1...2,....3, ting
And you could barely hear it.

At 300 yards I am surprised you can hear it. But it is interesting shooting long distance with a 22

 

[Nwcid]

I think when I did some 200 yds shots it was click, 1...2,....3, ting
And you could barely hear it.

At 300 yards I am surprised you can hear it. But it is interesting shooting long distance with a 22

Silencer with SS ammo shooting steel plates is the key. It is not a loud noise though.

 

[erudne]

Is ENVY an appropiate word?
I want to be careful that I do not use the wrong word or be mis-interperted, especialy since I have an "accent"
My supresed 10-22 cost an extra $45 and was magic. I could feed a mob of hungry men from one days shooting, as long as they would not get tired of skinny rabbits, gravey and Damper!
which of course they did, 6000 calories a day minimum!
Sheares could eat/DRINK more than an average human being would in a year!
Occasionaly you'l find these boys near Ellensburg but they are a differant strain than the local boys in OZ.
Good men all, but not as wild!

 

[MikeSettles]

The Army uses point-of-aim -> point-of-impact zero at 25 meters because, with the M16A3/M4 iron sights, the bullet crosses line-of-sight going up at 25 meters, and recrosses at 300 meters on its way down: "Battlesight Zero". This is a mechanical, physics-based formula, which actually works best if, after achieving POA/POI at 25 meters, the shooter refines it by engaging targets at 300 meters and making sight adjustments until zero (POA->POI) is achieved.
They also zero M68 CCO (Aimpoint Red-Dots) and ACOGs to the same standard.
Aiming low by a few inches at both 100 and 200 meters gets you first-round hits: PRACTICE is the key. The M16-series weapons are accurate well beyond 300 meters (I got consistent hits, with an issue M4 and M855 ammo, on a 4x4 piece of plywood at 500 meters a year ago in the mountains of Afghanistan), but neither American Soldiers, nor civilian shooters often train to the capability of the weapon.
Does the weapon/ammo have the power that larger cartridges do? No - but human kills have been achieved at least to 500 meters (I would prefer 6.5 Grendel myself). Mostly, I suspect that this "lack of power" is an excuse used by folks who don't want to make the effort to work the weapon to its capable range, so they don't try past 100-200 yards. "Old eyes" not good with iron sights? Get a decent scope!
I consider CQB to be from 0-25 meters; 50 to about 400 is mid-range; 500 to 1100 is long range. The M4/M16, with decent ammo and sights, is reasonably effective at least to 500 meters. TRAINING is the key!
(Personal note: I took my cousin-in-law to the range: He hadn't previously fired his M4 clone beyond 50 yards, and was concerned that the weapon wasn't grouping well: He was using 55 grain FMJ in a 1-7 twist 16 inch barrel. I gave him some 68 grain Hornady HPBT, he got tight groups at 100, and was soon achieving consistent hits at 300. He had a 1-4 power tactical scope.)

 

[HansC]

It is rare to meet people that shoot as well as they say they do. I've gone target shooting many times with new friends, hoping to learn good long range shooting skills, or how to knock clay birds from the air with pistols. Always end up stupifyingly disappointed. I hate to say this, but I know combat veterans who cannot hit a five inch target at forty feet with an assault rifle, pistol, bolt gun, or revolver, in a stressless situation. I am an okay shot. Pretty good with a pistol. I've never actually seen proof of incredible shooting. Would like to spend some time in Eastern Oregon. Some folks out there shoot digger squirrels at great distances, not a lot of room for error there. Could learn a lot from those men. I sympathize with the original poster. I have met way too many gun owners that really can't shoot.

 

[erudne]

As to squirrel shooting:
Given that 2 individual precision shooters are shooting under identicle situations aiming at a sub MOA target, at a distance of say 300 yards, the one with the slowest heart rate will probably fire first and hit first.
Think of a small zuchinnici squash as your target @300 yards. As a kid with my 22-250/3-9 Redfield I would usually hit 3 outa 10 @300 yards. It was not easy and if the cross hairs did not alighn perfectly on target or there was a slight breeze I learned to pass on the shot, ammo was not cheap.
We did not have the money to "Train". We did not even have the money to buy a case trimmer, Gawd knows what chamber pressures we were running pushing 53 grn bullets @3800 fps through untrimmed brass!
We loaded our ammo and learned what worked through failure. Our triggers weighed ounces. If anyone would have suggested we fire at a target, a target larger than a squirrel closer than 300 yards we would have thought he was nutz!
I made a few shots @400, I dropped a rabbit at 440yards while it was running. Then I got old and stupid, joined the army, rarely ever fired a rifle in anger.
I'm a better shooter today because I'm older, wiser, slower. which makes me think ahead by 5 seconds.
One thing I have learned; it is very difficult to learn marksmanship with a poor rifle.
A 10-22 with a trigger upgrade makes a good training platform and it's usually less than $100 extra.
That $100 sounds like alot untill you use it for a few 100 rounds and then you'll know that every firearm you own MUST have that trigger up-grade, it is an instant 50% improvement in accuracy and with that better trigger your control of bullet placement steadily improves, round after round. With my 10-22/scope and a good rest I can drop squirrels @ 125 yards with cheap ammo. The trigger is your friend.