AR-15 recommendation

[Member 34319]

Buying a factory AR15 is rough if you ask me. Other than maybe resale value your not getting much. Exact same components can be had for much much less putting one together. Overflow of components right now is making prices go down, a lot. I own a few Anderson lowers, they are great, and only $40. From there you get to pick the rest of your rifle and have it shipped to your house. But a factory rifle your going to get cheap plastic furniture. Oh you want magpul on your colt better add 300 for a 50 stock, because colt, right!

 

[jbett98]

Don't forget the extra price for the tools needed to build an AR at home.

 

[IronMonster]

Its true, attempting to put one together without at least some equipment would be quite frustrating and the result possibly less than ideal. Anyone in the Seattle area who needs anything to build a rifle I am willing to help out. I have everything to put one together including a national match set of headspace gauges. I have a business which is open to the public anyway, so swinging in to do some quick assembly is not much of an issue.

 

[Member 34319]

Don't forget the extra price for the tools needed to build an AR at home.

A hammer? Seriously. That's about it. Unless putting an upper together a hammer and maybe a punch. You could honestly put a lower together with a hammer and a screwdriver if you didn't want to buy the punch.

Most just buy a complete or semi complete upper. However if not a torque wrench and barrel nut adapter is about all is needed to assemble an upper.

If your a guy and you don't own a hammer and one or more screwdrivers, I don't know what to say.

 

[IronMonster]

Yeah.... It only takes a crescent wrench, hammer and a 4 in one screwdriver to rebuild a small block Chevy.

But if you have the "right" tools you know what you have when your done and the parts dont look like they where assembled with a crescent wrench and a hammer by Bubba

 

[Member 34319]

Yeah.... It only takes a crescent wrench, hammer and a 4 in one screwdriver to rebuild a small block Chevy.

But if you have the "right" tools you know what you have when your done and the parts dont look like they where assembled with a crescent wrench and a hammer by Bubba

I think there is a lot of myth about how easy or hard they are to assemble. I've put together ikea furniture that was harder.

If you buy unknown parts from unknown parts of the world, sure you could be making a pipe bomb.

If buying good reputable parts, in the case of a barrel and upper receiver, you'll be fine. A "go, no go" gauge helps make sure your in the clear of coarse, but I feel if it's in spec it's not needed. The lower though, I'm lost why people think it's hard or complicated. The myth that you need a couple hundred worth of tools to assemble confuses me further.

 

[Stomper]

Uh.... No, you need a proper clamshell vice-block for the upper receiver and a barrel nut wrench in order to properly torque (or to remove) the barrel nut. There's no way around it unless you want a macked up/destroyed upper receiver and/or barrel nut.

I once used one of those upper receiver vice-blocks that insert up into the upper receiver and utilizes the lugs for the take-down pins to try and break loose a barrel nut, and I cracked the upper clean through at the ejection port... Had to toss it and by a replacement upper.

Lesson learned? ALWAYS use a clamshell vice-block for anything beyond just cleaning.

 

[jbett98]

There's building an AR and there's "Building" an AR that's looks like it was produced at a factory and works as it should.

 

[IronMonster]

Yep, I have probably a grand worth of AR specific tools, including an 11 pc national match headspace set. You can Micky mouse your way though most of it, but its a heck of a lot more fun with all the gizmo's and gadgets to do it properly. Personally I am a tool junky and I enjoy the tools and tinkering with them as much as the rifles themselves AND I want to know not only that it is right, but that it is verifiability right.

 

[IronMonster]

I once used one of those upper receiver vice-blocks that insert up into the upper receiver and utilizes the lugs for the take-down pins to try and break loose a barrel nut, and I cracked the upper clean through at the ejection port... Had to toss it and by a replacement upper.

Lesson learned? ALWAYS use a clamshell vice-block for anything beyond just cleaning.

I agree, However most billet uppers will not fit in the clam shell block, they are made for the profile of a forged one. The other style with the bar to capture the flat top and the bottom that pins to the lugs is the only way I know of to work on one. I mount them in a 250 lb 8" vise though which gives it lots of support.

 

[spectra]

Uh.... No, you need a proper clamshell vice-block for the upper receiver and a barrel nut wrench in order to properly torque (or to remove) the barrel nut. There's no way around it unless you want a macked up/destroyed upper receiver and/or barrel nut.

I once used one of those upper receiver vice-blocks that insert up into the upper receiver and utilizes the lugs for the take-down pins to try and break loose a barrel nut, and I cracked the upper clean through at the ejection port... Had to toss it and by a replacement upper.

Lesson learned? ALWAYS use a clamshell vice-block for anything beyond just cleaning.

My only problem with the clamshell is they do not fit the billet uppers

 

[IronMonster]

HA! I beat you too it Spectra

 

[spectra]

HA! I beat you too it Spectra

Guess I was slow on the keyboard

 

[jbett98]

A receiver rod works the best. Not cheap but well worth the cash if you're building more then one AR.

Description:
The Geissele Reaction Rod is a tool that securely holds an upper receiver assembly for maintenance and assembly work. By gripping the Reaction Rod in a bench vice either horizontally or vertically, the upper receiver can be slid onto the rod and the rod's integral spines enter the barrel extension and secure the barrel extension from turning. This keeps all torque force away from your aluminum receiver, preventing damage to the small, easily distorted receiver index pin. With the Geissele Reaction Rod, marring of an upper receiver's finish by gripping and twisting inside vise blocks is eliminated and so is the need to remove sights and mounts from the receivers M1913 rail.

Machined at Geissele Automatic's state of the art manufacturing facility in Norristown, Pennsylvania, cut from a solid bar of 4140 Chome Moly Steel and properly quenched/tempered and ground to an exact diameter that is smooth and straight so the rod will enter an upper receiver without wobble.

 

[Member 34319]

To each their own. AR assembling can be hard if you make it hard. Specific tools help assembling, sure. Do you need to spend a few thousand, no. If your clever and good with the tools you got, you can make anything. Or put an AR together.

No offense ironmonster, but sometimes those preaching it's hard and that special tools are required usually have alternative reasons to do so. IE they make their earnings assembling AR15s. From those perspectives anything other than the right specific, hundred dollar tool is the wrong tool.

My original point was just about anyone can assemble a lower with minimal tools. Using components they want. If they choose to assemble an upper it doesn't require a shop full of tools to do so.

I've put together 3 uppers, one using a borrowed vise block, the other two being milled uppers, I made a vise block for using an inexpensive cutting board. The 1/2" barrel nut adapter cost all of 5 dollars on the web. I already owned a torque wrench and vise.

If one doesn't own tools, doesn't want the small hassle, than by all means buy a complete factory gun.

My recommendation would be to assemble a lower. Using the trigger of your choice, stock, buffer, etc. Than purchase a complete upper of your choice.

If not a good factory gun would be Colt, Windham, Rock River, DPMS, the list goes on. All are reputable and proven.

OP good luck in your purchase search.

 

[IronMonster]

Its not rocket surgery (or brain science) I own a blacksmith/fab shop. I have a full machine and forge shop and make my living with tools. Hell, I even build a line of tools

(If you want to see what they look like Jesse James/West Coast Choppers's posted a set I made for him on Facebook)

https://www.facebook.com/WestCoast2...68/10152866848204369/?type=1&relevant_count=1


I have some "good" tools that even I dont use, I have them just because I like them. I also have an extensive collection of antique tools.

I like tools

On a day to day basis the quality of my existence is dependent on my tools working well. It is miserable to try and make a living with poor tools and it is very rewarding to use fine tools. I use a center punch that was hand made by a local blacksmith. It is an absolute thing of beauty, It is fullered and engraved and truly a work of art. Every time I use it it gives me pleasure, and I use it a lot. I know not everyone can find beauty in a center-punch. There are plenty of guys who are happy using one from Harbor Freight, they make the same mark.



I have many, (maybe 20?) hand made hammers made by blacksmiths from all over the world that I use every day. Many where gifts but the ones that were not cost $100-$300 each. Will they do anything a crappy garage sale hammer wont? Yep, they bring me joy. For that matter I probably own 300 hammers and actually use a great many of them.

I dont see working on my firearms as anything different. Of course I want to do the best job I can but much of why I do it is because I enjoy it and its more fun to do with the proper tools.

It is kind of the same thing as owing a High Poing JHP or a hand built custom 1911. They both go bang when you pull the trigger. One cost $169 the other would be at least ten times that and personally I would find much more satisfaction and joy in the latter.

I in no way am implying that it cant be done without them or that a person who does not have them cannot do a fine job.

The tools dont make the craftsman, The craftsman makes the tools.

 

[jbett98]

Would anyone here hire a contractor if he showed up with a bunch of Harbor Freight tools?

 

[Siglvr]

It's a buyers market, and if you buy a factory build, any factory build, you will be getting a great deal right now. Here's some pretty good info via discussion by some fanatics It might confuse you more than help you though. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...ught-a-BM-RRA-Stag-before-I-knew-better!-quot

Colt, Daniel Defense S&W and Ruger mfg AR's in your price range that are unquestionably high quality. Most Mfg now, like the Smith and Wesson M&P noted in the thread above, have widely differing price ranges. S&W has the Sport in the $529 and up range
And the magnificent Smith and Wesson M&PTS is $1233 and change. and a bunch more in between those prices. No matter which you purchase, you are getting a great deal as we are blessed with a buyers market. Just remember that you usually get what you pay for and it's just hard to find a bad deal anywhere these days. Thankfully. So pull the trigger and get onboard

I copied this off of AR-15.com. 152 AR-15 Mfg's listed. Might be dated as I see at least 2 great Mfgs whom are no longer in business (Next Generation and Sabre).
AAC
Accurate Tool & Manufacturing
Adams Arms
Ad-Tek
Addax Tactical
AFM
Alexander Arms
Ameetec
AGP Arms
Ardel Engineering & Manufacturing
Armalite
American Spirit Arms
Anderson Manufacturing
Anvil Arms
Aero Precision
ATI
Arizona Armory
Barnes Precision Machine
Bartlett Enterprises
Battle Born
BCM
Black Heart International (BHI)
Black Hole Weaponry
Black Rain Ordnance
Blackthorne
BOHICA
Bushmaster
Barrett
CD Defense
Colt
Carolina Mountain Tactical
Cavalry Arms ( not producing, still available)
CMMG, Inc.
Century Arms
Centurion Arms
Continental Machine & Tool (CMT)
Core 15
Christensen Arms
Crusader Weaponry
C3 Defense
Dane Armory
Daniel Defense
Del-Ton
Delaware Machinery
Denny's Guns
Dalphon
Dedicated Technology
Diemaco
Dlask
DPMS
DPM Shops
D.S. Arms
DSA Inc.
DSG Arms
double Diamond
Double Star
Dreadnaught Industries
DSC/J&P Dist.
Essential Arms
Eagle Arms
Firebird Precision
FN Manufacturing
Frankford Armory
Fulton Armory
GATITO Arms
Good Times Outdoors
Gunsmoke
High Standard
Head Down Products
Hero-Guns
Hesse / Vulcan Arms
HK
Hughes Precision Products
Huldra Arms
Iron Ridge Arms
JD Machine Tech
JP Rifles, Inc.
Kaiser
Kies
Knight's Armament
Larue Tactical
LAR
Lauer Custom Weaponry
Legion Firearms
Les Baer Custom
Lone Wolf
Loki Weapons Systems
LMT
LRB Arms
LWRC
M2 Corporation
Magpul
McKay Enterprises, LLC.
MGI
Mega Machine
Mohawk Armory
Mossberg
Next Generation
NoDak Spud
Norinco
Noveske
Olympic Arms
Para USA
PAW Arms
Plum Crazy (Plastic)
POF
Predator Custom Shop
PSA (Palmetto State Armory)
PWA (Pac West Arms)
PWS
Quality Arms
Quentin Defense
R-Guns
Red Jacket LLC.
Red River Tactical
Remington
RGM
RIP Tactical
RND Machining
Rock River Arms
Rocky Mountain Arms
Roggio Arsenal
Ruger
Sabre Defense
Seekins
Sendra
Sharps
SLR-15
SI Defense
Sig Sauer
Sionics weapon systems
SOG Armory
Spikes Tactical
Smith & Wesson
SMOS
Surplus Ammo & Arms
Stag
STI
Stinger Arms
Superior Arms
Sun Devil
Tactical Innovations
Tactical Machining
TNW
USA Tactical Firearms
Vltor
Windham Weaponry
Wilson Combat
YHM Co.
Z-M Weapons
Zombie Defense

As noted above, there are additionally local builders. Some of whom are doing a superb job. Some not so much. Check my link to M4 out to see what is important to you and have at it. Good luck!!!!

 

[AS556]

About the post to not consider 1:7 twist rate..how silly. My 1:7 shoots 50-80gr juuust fine. If its a dedicated varmint rifle, Id avoid 1:7. For a GP carbine where you will likely shoot only 55/62gr it will work perfectly.

Also, Ive built three lowers using nothing more than a claw hammer wrapped in masking tape, a brass punch, and a screwdriver. They look like factory lowers as far as quality goes. Dont let people make it sound like its some monumental task requiring some obscure tool set. Didnt use a vice either.

 

[Stomper]

Don't need one for a lower, I put three lowers together sitting on my bed and used a small nail and pocket knife to do all the springs and detents, then a screw driver to screw on the pistol grip.

You DO need a couple specialized tools to work the barrel nut properly.