AR-15 Armorer Course

[titsonritz]

SEMPER PARATUS ARMS will be holding an AR-15 Armorer Course at TJ Gun Sales in McMinnville, OR March 25/26, 2017.

Scheduling conflict has made me miss this class three times, twice in Texas and once in Arizona, NOT AGAIN. I am signed up and paid up and looking forward to it.

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[P7M13]

SEMPER PARATUS ARMS will be holding an AR-15 Armorer Course at TJ Gun Sales in McMinnville, OR March 25/26, 2017.

Scheduling conflict has made me miss this class three times, twice in Texas and once in Arizona, NOT AGAIN. I am signed up and paid up and looking forward to it.

Thanks for the heads up on that.
Someone should tell them their website, while modern, sucks rotten potato.

 

[DirectDrive]

Would be interesting to see how they teach receiver restraint (what appliances), barrel install and receiver extension install.
And tool types.
I used the M16/M4 Tech manual and the free Brownells video series.

 

[titsonritz]

Would be interesting to see how they teach receiver restraint (what appliances), barrel install and receiver extension install.
And tool types.
I used the M16/M4 Tech manual and the free Brownells video series.

I know Will uses a Geissele Reaction Rod for upper work and Geissele Reaction Block for lower work. As far as other tools go there is a list on his web site.

 

[2A2Dend]

I've used a bench vise, two short pieces of 2x4, pipe wrench, screwdriver and hammer in a pinch

 

[MilitantBEEMER]

Looks very interesting. One thing I have never done is completely assemble an upper or swap out a barrel. I have always farmed it out to a smith.

 

[Ironbar]

Literally everything this class teaches can be found on youtube videos.

 

[IronMonster]

SEMPER PARATUS ARMS will be holding an AR-15 Armorer Course at TJ Gun Sales in McMinnville, OR March 25/26, 2017.

Scheduling conflict has made me miss this class three times, twice in Texas and once in Arizona, NOT AGAIN. I am signed up and paid up and looking forward to it.

What's your take on what's taught? From the standpoint of someone who has read a dozen books on AR's and built close to fifty of them is it worth driving 700 miles and spending the time to take the class?

I am not an expert nor would I call myself an armor but I am also not a novice. My fear is I would commit a bunch of time and money to sit through a workshop of basic information I don't know what I don't know but I know enough I have been able to solve any functional issues that have ever presented themselves to date.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Ironbar]

See my last post on this thread.

 

[DirectDrive]

Literally everything this class teaches can be found on youtube videos.

Like on any subject, there are some garbage AR Build videos on Youtube.
Kitchen Table Gun Plumbers showing the way.
There's one where the guy just mashes the boltcatch pin and moves right along like it's OK.

The best ones I have found are the Brownells AR Build series.
Very professional and all the tools used are called out.
The two oversights that I noted were...
1) They didn't call out a barrel nut grease.
This would be Aeroshell 33MS if you follow the USGI Tech Manual.
There are all sorts of crap used on the barrel nut, but the above is the
only one called out by name in the Tech Manual and it's easy to obtain.

2) They didn't use a barrel vise when working on the muzzle device.
With lower USGI torque specs it's OK, but for some aftermarket stuff that has to be indexed
and at higher torque specs......not OK.

On the classes, some like the hands on thing and it's worth it for them.
Nothin wrong with that and if the guy is using the Geiselle stuff, the rest of his tool kit
is probably of high quality.
And his procedure is most likely very good.

 

[IronMonster]

Just read who is giving the testimonials on the course page, it sounds like the guy is very highly thought of.

I know more ( done more actual hands on work) than 80% of the guys who give bad advise on you tube, kind of the point of my question. Some of these workshops though are geared towards folks who know nothing. Attending one of those would be a waste of my time. If it's a course for armors I would probably learn a lot.

I have been through this before on other subjects. I once flew out to Denver to take a two day workshop in another subject. Turned out I could of done a far better job of teaching the course. I was not a happy camper as all in I had spent over a grand to get there and attend.

 

[P7M13]

Just read who is giving the testimonials on the course page, it sounds like the guy is very highly thought of.

I know more ( done more actual hands on work) than 80% of the guys who give bad advise on you tube, kind of the point of my question. Some of these workshops though are geared towards folks who know nothing. Attending one of those would be a waste of my time. If it's a course for armors I would probably learn a lot.

I have been through this before on other subjects. I once flew out to Denver to take a two day workshop in another subject. Turned out I could of done a far better job of teaching the course. I was not a happy camper as all in I had spent over a grand to get there and attend.

Hands on learning is not something you cannot glean from a video. Like you say, you have much more experience than a lot of the people posting vids. I saw some vid on a guy changing out his handguard and he chewed the hell out of his barrel nut. My dad used to call that "gauer", meaning rounding off corners like Gauer bar. He's say, "Look, you gauered the hell out of it !"

 

[IronMonster]

Best case on a deal like this is you are the least experienced in the class. Worst case is you know more than everyone, including the instructor

I am honestly interested in going, might even consider bringing my nephew along who is somewhat of an AR nut. But if I go I want to be the least experienced in a group of experts because then I know It will be worth the time and money to go.

 

[P7M13]

@IronMonster: start your own course. Attendees must either bring a complete build kit, or buy one from you.
I'm sure you could practice your material on a bunch of us pukes.

 

[HB of CJ]

No big dog here and I will not be attending but I have to wonder if they will demonstrate another correct way of torquing up a barrel.

About the only thing I can add is that an expensive 5" or 6" smooth jaw bolted on HD bench vise is very necessary to do things correctly.

Also that the pesky OEM trigger guard roll pin gets pressed slowly into the lower receiver. Do not ask how I know this is true. Embarrassing!

Also many various corrective actions when things do not go right.

Also no staking anywhere. Yep.

Also what happened to my AR15 barrel posts?

HB of CJ hundreds of builds. uncounted rebuilds.

 

[IronMonster]

I have helped at least a dozen folks build an AR, built maybe 50 of my own and troubleshot a lot of issues, I don't think I am qualified to "teach" exactly. I am still just a basement tinker (who happens to also own a fab, blacksmith and machine shop)

I do have all the tools and toys for assembly and am willing to help anyone who wants a little or a lot.

Now that I am in Idaho I doubt I will get as many takers as I did in Seattle

 

[DirectDrive]

No big dog here and I will not be attending but I have to wonder if they will demonstrate another correct way of torquing up a barrel.

About the only thing I can add is that an expensive 5" or 6" smooth jaw bolted on HD bench vise is very necessary to do things correctly.

Also that the pesky OEM trigger guard roll pin gets pressed slowly into the lower receiver. Do not ask how I know this is true. Embarrassing!

Also many various corrective actions when things do not go right.

Also no staking anywhere. Yep.

Also what happened to my AR15 barrel posts?

HB of CJ hundreds of builds. uncounted rebuilds.

Yep, that would be a core item.
Apparently he is using the Geissele Reaction Rod restraint which is a very good appliance.
Having said that, his technique is probably very good as well.

A member of the Kitchen Table Gun Plumber's Union doesn't know WTF a Reaction Rod is.

 

[P7M13]

Yep, that would be a core item.
Apparently he is using the Geissele Reaction Rod restraint which is a very good appliance.
Having said that, his technique is probably very good as well.

A member of the Kitchen Table Gun Plumber's Union doesn't know WTF a Reaction Rod is.

Nope. A pipe wrench is all that's needed.

 

[IronMonster]

I get a kick out of the "all it takes is a hammer" AR assembly guy on you tube.

While it does not take much it's a whole lot more fun with the right tools.

 

[DirectDrive]

I get a kick out of the "all it takes is a hammer" AR assembly guy on you tube.

While it does not take much it's a whole lot more fun with the right tools.

View attachment 336815

Yeah, it's more than that.
Usually you can find everything you need in the kitchen junk drawer.
Then grab the wife's picture hangin hammer, some KY jelly and you are GTG.