Anyone with a 80% lower jig want to team up?

[IronMonster]

He had a major fire last month. Last I heard it was a total loss.

Yep, No more shop.

I have hauled 30 ton of machinery and material to scrap and over 250 yards to the dump.

 

[olddanshooter]

Deepest condolences for your loss.

 

[Gun Mechanic]

Sorry to hear about your shop

It's illegal to use someone else's machines to build your lower unless they are a class 2 manufacture and then it would be their lower and they would need to sell it to you.

The rule of thumb is you have to build your lower by yourself with your personally owned tools/machines.

<broken link removed>

 

[IronMonster]

All of this discussion took place prior to the new ATF determination.

 

[bolus]

All of this discussion took place prior to the new ATF determination.

woah... did the ATF burn down your shop? makes total sense now..

 

[rdb241]

First of all, my 12 ton press is not a machine. Second of all, it is OK to use someone elses tooling as long as they are not in the buisness of manufacturing firearms. If a shop uses there CNC to manufacture firearms, then no you can't use there tooling with it prepogramed. If you go to a friends house and use there press and spot welder there is no problem. Unless the person that owns the tooling does it for you. But the person that owns the tooling can coach you all day long and show you how to do it. This topic has been gone over before.

 

[bolus]

First of all, my 12 ton press is not a machine. Second of all, it is OK to use someone elses tooling as long as they are not in the buisness of manufacturing firearms. If a shop uses there CNC to manufacture firearms, then no you can't use there tooling with it prepogramed. If you go to a friends house and use there press and spot welder there is no problem. Unless the person that owns the tooling does it for you. But the person that owns the tooling can coach you all day long and show you how to do it. This topic has been gone over before.

It is one of those things where the ATF likes to make their own interpretations of the law and they are not below raiding someone, confiscating all their stuff, ignoring court orders and letting it sort out in court even if they are wrong. Since they dont have repercussions for doing something wrong or even illegal it seems to not matter if someone is technically in the right. So if i owned some very expensive shop equipment and didnt have the money to put a lawyer on retainer, I wouldnt let anyone use it either.

 

[rdb241]

I agree. My point is the guy in his garage that has a couple of friends over. Then letting them use your press.

 

[IronMonster]

Agreed, But I think earlier in the post I had talked about doing a build party at my shop. I just wanted to make clear when we where talking about it the ATF had yet to go full retard.

 

[Kruel J]

All of this discussion took place prior to the new ATF determination.

What is the new determination?

 

[IronMonster]

That a guy who has a shop cant let folks used his equipment for a 80% build. There is a link posted above.

 

[Kruel J]

I missed the link, thanks Iron.

 

[Gun Mechanic]

I think you either missed this paragraph or aren't reading it the same way I am. In short, if the shop lets someone use their machines or tool and either assists or let's them use the equipment, the shop is essentially the manufacturer of a firearm.

A business (including an association or society) may not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements under the GCA simply by allowing individuals to initiate or manipulate a CNC machine, or to use machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion or control to perform manufacturing processes on blanks, unfinished frames or receivers, or incomplete weapons. In these cases, the business controls access to, and use of, its machinery, tools, and equipment. Following manufacture, the business "distributes" a firearm when it returns or otherwise disposes a finished frame or receiver, or complete weapon to its customer. Such individuals or entities are, therefore, "engaged in the business" of manufacturing firearms even though unlicensed individuals may have assisted them in the manufacturing process.

 

[rdb241]

That still does not apply to a guy and a couple of buddy's in his own garage.

 

[Gun Mechanic]

That still does not apply to a guy and a couple of buddy's in his own garage.

I never said it did. I was talking to the OP who was offering his mill to others.

In court it's not always what's written in a law that decides who wins, It's sometimes the side who gives the best argument on their interpretation of the law.

 

[rdb241]

Are you a lawyer? How much law school do you have?

 

[Gun Mechanic]

Are you a lawyer? How much law school do you have?

And this pertains to the OP how? I can't tell if you are asking for a real answer or just trying to start an argument. For reference I worked for a class 2 manufacture for six years where we manufacturing (CNC machined) serialized recievers for a local firearm manufacture so I know a thing or two about firearm manufaturing laws. How many class 2 manufactures do you know who are lawyers and have X amount of law school? It's obvious you have zero law experience in this field as a professional manufacture. If you do, I'd love to hear who you work for.

I responded to the OP regarding using a mill. You butted in and stared talking about forming blanks in a garage, which was only brought up because you introduced it into the conversation.