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Sup, ya'll please bear with me as this post might seem a bit pedantic but I'd really appreciate your feedback as always. As the internet seems to careen back, forth and sideways from one knee jerk reaction to another in the "tactical trends" of the gun world, do any of ya'll still prefer Eotech's and Magnifiers over an LVPO and an offset or top mounted red dot on your GPR's?
Note: for the rifle setup in question, a 13.9 Pin and Weld general purpose rifle I see some magnification as a *must* have on this build. I have had people come in the comments of threads I've posted about LPVO's in the past, try to convince me that magnification isn't "necessary" and that so-and-so can hit targets at 200-400 yards with a red dot with no issue when that really wasn't the debate I was trying to have. If this is your POV, you are entitled to your opinion, but that is not an option for this build for me. This rifle will have magnification of some form or another so please don't detract from the conversation by trying to turn it into a "magnification vs. no-magnification" discussion. Thanks.
And with that said, let's get into the reason why I started this thread. While it's obvious that all options have their pros and cons it seems that people have really swayed away from using Holo-sights and Magnifiers. I have run both 1-6 LPVO's as well as Magnified red dots, and I am still torn.
I've been debating whether I should do the same on my 13.9 GPR, or give the ol' Eotech + Magnifier setup another chance. Eventually, I'd like to use night vision with my 13.9 and be able to aim passively through an optic on that gun. For this, a top mounted dot seems kind of awkward with this height over bore, and compromised third point of contact (can you even get a cheek weld?). Maybe it's not and I am overthinking it having never done it before. That being said, the LPVO is clearly superior for engagements at intermediate ranges which is a capability that I think is important for a GPR. Also, provided that running a top mounted red dot isn't too awkward, it would be an easier more cost effective item to add as I go. It would merely add capability without changing much else about the setup that would already be there if that makes any sense. I appreciate the image quality of a good LPVO, as well as their versatility as a jack of all trades optic, which kind of suits the GPR concept poetically.
As for the Eotech and Mag setup, I'm not sure I'd enjoy going back to crammed eye box/relief and worse image quality (under magnification), and having a 12 ounce chungus hanging off the side of my rifle in the tight confines of a CQB environment. After all this is still a GPR and I'd like it to still do GPR things i.e. be capable out to 300-400 yards while offering a decent ability to maneuver in CQB (or home defense). I know there is the Unity riser and FTC that fixes the snag hazard and balancing issue of the magnifier, but that adds considerable cost, and some weight to a build that I originally wanted to be somewhat light and handy. With the 2.25 height riser, I am not sure how much I'd like running that under magnification and having to settle for a chin weld having heard that it's less slower and harder to control. also if I added the Unity stuff say, after I bought the EOTECH and Magnifier, I'd have to re-learn the holds, ergos, etc. (again maybe this wouldn't be as big of a problem as I'm thinking it might be.). Despite my criticisms, the EOTECH is superior on 1x (and it's not close compared to an LPVO 1x), it's faster to acquire, easier to track under recoil, has less issues with parallax, eye relief, etc., is just all around more intuitive to use on 1x and seems like a more natural choice for passive aiming with it's huge window, light transmission etc. (I know you all know this, I am just stating this to show that I have considered things things so you have a general idea of my knowledge level.)
There is, after all a lot to spend money on to get my gear to even a modestly NV capable setup. The way I see it, I am still no less than $7k away from completing an NV capable setup with a PVS-14, bump helmet and mounting accessories, an optic stack capable of good NV passive aiming, a device for active aiming (like a D-BAL), and a suppressor. All that in mind if I keep waffling on setups then I worry I'll never get there without a plan. I feel like the decision I end up making if going to dictate a lot about how the rest of this build goes and how I spend my money. This is why I throw this out to you, who may already have experience of have been there. What have your experiences been when trying these setups? Is LPVO + top dot the way to go for my application? Or would I be better served going with the undisputed king (still) of passive aiming optics under nods, the Eotech EXPS3?
Note: for the rifle setup in question, a 13.9 Pin and Weld general purpose rifle I see some magnification as a *must* have on this build. I have had people come in the comments of threads I've posted about LPVO's in the past, try to convince me that magnification isn't "necessary" and that so-and-so can hit targets at 200-400 yards with a red dot with no issue when that really wasn't the debate I was trying to have. If this is your POV, you are entitled to your opinion, but that is not an option for this build for me. This rifle will have magnification of some form or another so please don't detract from the conversation by trying to turn it into a "magnification vs. no-magnification" discussion. Thanks.
And with that said, let's get into the reason why I started this thread. While it's obvious that all options have their pros and cons it seems that people have really swayed away from using Holo-sights and Magnifiers. I have run both 1-6 LPVO's as well as Magnified red dots, and I am still torn.
I've been debating whether I should do the same on my 13.9 GPR, or give the ol' Eotech + Magnifier setup another chance. Eventually, I'd like to use night vision with my 13.9 and be able to aim passively through an optic on that gun. For this, a top mounted dot seems kind of awkward with this height over bore, and compromised third point of contact (can you even get a cheek weld?). Maybe it's not and I am overthinking it having never done it before. That being said, the LPVO is clearly superior for engagements at intermediate ranges which is a capability that I think is important for a GPR. Also, provided that running a top mounted red dot isn't too awkward, it would be an easier more cost effective item to add as I go. It would merely add capability without changing much else about the setup that would already be there if that makes any sense. I appreciate the image quality of a good LPVO, as well as their versatility as a jack of all trades optic, which kind of suits the GPR concept poetically.
As for the Eotech and Mag setup, I'm not sure I'd enjoy going back to crammed eye box/relief and worse image quality (under magnification), and having a 12 ounce chungus hanging off the side of my rifle in the tight confines of a CQB environment. After all this is still a GPR and I'd like it to still do GPR things i.e. be capable out to 300-400 yards while offering a decent ability to maneuver in CQB (or home defense). I know there is the Unity riser and FTC that fixes the snag hazard and balancing issue of the magnifier, but that adds considerable cost, and some weight to a build that I originally wanted to be somewhat light and handy. With the 2.25 height riser, I am not sure how much I'd like running that under magnification and having to settle for a chin weld having heard that it's less slower and harder to control. also if I added the Unity stuff say, after I bought the EOTECH and Magnifier, I'd have to re-learn the holds, ergos, etc. (again maybe this wouldn't be as big of a problem as I'm thinking it might be.). Despite my criticisms, the EOTECH is superior on 1x (and it's not close compared to an LPVO 1x), it's faster to acquire, easier to track under recoil, has less issues with parallax, eye relief, etc., is just all around more intuitive to use on 1x and seems like a more natural choice for passive aiming with it's huge window, light transmission etc. (I know you all know this, I am just stating this to show that I have considered things things so you have a general idea of my knowledge level.)
There is, after all a lot to spend money on to get my gear to even a modestly NV capable setup. The way I see it, I am still no less than $7k away from completing an NV capable setup with a PVS-14, bump helmet and mounting accessories, an optic stack capable of good NV passive aiming, a device for active aiming (like a D-BAL), and a suppressor. All that in mind if I keep waffling on setups then I worry I'll never get there without a plan. I feel like the decision I end up making if going to dictate a lot about how the rest of this build goes and how I spend my money. This is why I throw this out to you, who may already have experience of have been there. What have your experiences been when trying these setups? Is LPVO + top dot the way to go for my application? Or would I be better served going with the undisputed king (still) of passive aiming optics under nods, the Eotech EXPS3?
