Anyone here fond of the 7.62mm Tokarev cartridge?

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by Captain O, Sep 5, 2017.

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  1. Captain O

    Captain O
    St. Helens, OR
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    We all know the FMJ military load (Russian/Chinese "Ball") ammunition penetrates well but is a marginal "stopper". A good 85-grain .308 JSP/JHP bullet loaded to the original velocities carries one heck of a wallop. (1722 fps and yielding 560 fpe).

    I own a Yugo M57 chambered for the cartridge and I like it a great deal. It shoots both flat and straight. The muzzle blast is pronounced, but the energies generated are worth it.

    Does anyone else like the round?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
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  2. Captain O

    Captain O
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    SUCH EXCITEMENT! :rolleyes:
     
  3. ditchtiger

    ditchtiger
    In the sticks, Willamette Valley
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    If only Hi-Point would make a carbine for this caliber.
     
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  4. GOG

    GOG
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    I've never handled the round. However from what I know about it it's a screamer.
    I've thought myself that it would be a pretty fun pistol and round to experiment with.
     
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  5. Captain O

    Captain O
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    The Soviets cut up a lot of Nazi soldiers with it.
     
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  6. coyotecaller

    coyotecaller Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I like it. I reload .309 90gr. Hornady XTP with power pistol and without even max loads my Romanian Tok rockets them at 1,822 FPS through a chronograph. Good bullet and performs great!

    That reminds me :eek: I need more power pistol powder
     
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  7. MrNatural

    MrNatural
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    7.62x25mm is one of my favorites. I've been shooting a lot of it in a lot of platforms over the years. First and foremost it's a superb smg round. Marvelously controllable and decidedly deadly thanks to its powers of penetration. Also it doesn't do too badly in pistols of late.

    Of late, one version the Yugo 57 pistol is my new choice in that caliber. I like the one with the added safety (ATF requirement for importing) on the frame just behind the left grip. Just like the Colt 1911. You can carry that in condition 1 (cocked and locked) which I favor. Btw, snag a few extra M57 magazines when you can find them at a decent price. The Yugoslavian 9-rd ones are unique to the M57 and getting harder (and pricier) to find. The regular, cheaper Tok 8-rd mags are too short to work. Try here:

    M57 Factory Original TT Tokarev 7.62x25 9 Round Magazine

    There are other versions of the M57 with the safety on the side of the slide like a S&W 39. I don't much care for those.

    Imported Russian, eastern block and Chinese Tokarev pistols all suffer from the same thing: That damned added safety. I've tried a bunch of them and never yet come across one that was anything but a PITA to actually use. Some importers put the safety in front of the left grip and some behind. Some have levers and some rotate. But never one that feels like a 1911 or is easy to use.

    Quality wise I find the Yugoslavian, East block or original Russian Tokarev pistols are the best. I don't care for the Chinese copies I've handled. Chinese metallurgy and QC is lacking.

    Something to be aware of in any of the Tokarevs is that it is not safe to carry in condition two (hammer down on a live round). The firing pin in the Tokarevs is non-inertial and a sharp blow to the hammer in condition two can and will fire the piece. The proper way to carry a Tokarev pistol with a round chambered is with the hammer in half-cock position, which is an uncommon manner to those (of us!) trained in Browning designs.

    Something else to be aware of with the Yugoslavian M57's is their parts are completely compatible with Russian and Warsaw Pact countries Tokarev pistols (Romanian, Polish, etc), except for the M57's longer magazine and grip panels. This means most spare and/or custom parts for other Tokarevs fit and function just fine. Also means you can buy a 9mm barrel for a Russian/Warsaw Pact Tokarev and it should fit and function in your M57. 9mmP is a lot cheaper and easier to find than 7.62x25 these days.

    Unhappily no one makes a good inexpensive 7.62x25 JHP round for self defense I've found. There is a JHP made by PPU/Prvi Partizan also marketed as Wolf Gold JHP but I tested some years ago and it doesn't expand worth spit. I see Sellier & Bellot now sells a JHP round, but I have not yet tested it. In its JRN factory configuration 7.62x25 is a notoriously poor manstopper. But it will burn through a soft ballistic vest like an icepick through jello, so it still has some utility as a carry piece. The bad guys are often found in chicken vests these days.

    You can reload the 7.62x25mm with ,311" JHP bullets designed for the .32 H&R magnum revolver round and get a pretty potent stopper.

    However the 7.62x25 doesn't lend itself to reloading so well. Guns chambered for it tend to throw their empties waaaaaay out into the boonies. Also you have to lubricate the cases like a rifle round to reload. Also not all reloading dies will resize the case neck sufficiently to allow you to use cheap .308" bullets. And of course, some 7.62x25 cases are berdan primed and so not easily or cheaply reloaded. I've had good results with S&B and PPU/Prvi Partisan ammo. They're both boxer primed and reload just fine.

    Back before the Obama ammo shortage, there was imported milsurp 7.62x25 from several countries. All old (like 1950's production), corrosive and berdan. But it tended to be cheap. There was:
    Bulgarian - awful click. . . bang stuff. I hope I never get desperate enough to buy it.
    Polish - not as common, but not bad.
    Romanian - some lots were a bit erratic but overall the best of the imported milsurp

    My favorite stuff was the Norinco from China. 1990's production, noncorrosive, steel case, berdan primed and hot loaded. Was wonderfully cheap at the time and functioned in anything (except Broomhandle Mauser pistols of course - NEVER EVER shoot any modern 7.62x25 loads in a Broomhandle!!). Of course no more Chinese ammo since Clinton signed the import ban back in the 90's.

    A while back a friend and I tried to develop a tracer round for the 7.62x25 using pulled .30 carbine bullets. Never got that to work satisfactorily, alas. Too bad as it would have served a tactical purpose.

    One of these days I hope to fiddle around and find a subsonic load that will function a silenced Tokarev. But haven't gotten around to it yet.

    My, my, my, but I do prattle on. Didn't mean to make this post a doctoral thesis on the subject, but me and the 7.62x25 round are old pals. We've been around the block a time or two together.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
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  8. Captain O

    Captain O
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    I just sent an e-mail to Underwood suggesting that they load their Extreme Penetrator bullet in this cartridge. What a performer!
     
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  9. Captain O

    Captain O
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    Do the .311" diameter bullets cause a pressure problem in the Yugo? I would think that the larger diameter bullets would tend to cause a "pressure spike". How well/poorly do these oversized bullets function in these pistols?
     
  10. cooper

    cooper
    molalla
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    I LOVE THIS ROUND..
    WHICH I HAD BETTER TASTE 15YRS AGO. I WOULD HAVE BUILT A CABIN OUT OF 7.62 AMMO CRATES
     
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  11. Wombat of Doom

    Wombat of Doom
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    Huge fan. I have a romanian and a Soviet and some spare parts. Someone once referred to it as a pistol which thinks it is a rifle. I feel that is accurate. It is a personal favorite to shoot.
     
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  12. MrNatural

    MrNatural
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    No problem at all. .311" is the standard size for 7.62x25 bullets. The spec groove size for 7.62x25 barrels is .312", although that has been known to vary.
     
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  13. ditchtiger

    ditchtiger
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    This September's "Firearm News" has an article on Pioneer Arms. They are going to import the PPS-43C as a pistol. Company website is,
    Pioneer Arms Corp
    upload_2017-9-14_16-57-28.png

    upload_2017-9-14_16-54-5.png
     
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  14. coyotecaller

    coyotecaller Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I like and enjoy unique and odd designs and ideas incorporated into firearms and I think a little 16" barelled bolt action repeater or break action, even like an H&R type would be a sweet little carbine in 7.62x25 or a 30 carbine. Maybe a small batch of people would like my crazy idea o_O
     
  15. Captain O

    Captain O
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    Me, me, me, me, meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! A neat little Handi-rifle would be great. Putting this into an M1 Carbine-style platform in a "blow back" format would be superb.

    I'd be up for it.
     
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