Anyone have tips for a first time land buyer?

[Sun195]

Thinking about neighbors.... really try to talk with the people who own property around you. Nice, friendly neighbors can make a world of difference in your experiences owning a piece of property. They'll keep an eye out to make sure nobody's messing around with it. They'll let you know if something's wrong. They'll sometimes chip-in to help maintain shared resources like roads. It's just nice being next to folks who wave and say "hi" when you're there.

On the other hand...if your neighbors are nasty, then look out. Maybe they'll trespass across your land. Maybe they'll do stuff to screw-up your property. Need a favor like temporary access across their land? No way. Have a view of something? Maybe they'll plant poplar trees to block your view (on purpose). Have an easement across their property? Well, good luck utilizing that. Are they meth cookers? Do they have teenagers/friends/whoever who might see your property as easy-pickins? The list goes on and on.

 

[AMProducts]

Actually, one thing I should mention...

Before buying property in a certain area, definitely go there, and visit the local big-box stores, not to buy anything but to observe the people. If they are ugly, or seem to have emotional problems there may be some issues with the water or air in the area. I know some of the places I've visited, you can tell the quality of the air and water based on how the people look and act.

 

[AMProducts]

Thinking about neighbors.... really try to talk with the people who own property around you. Nice, friendly neighbors can make a world of difference in your experiences owning a piece of property. They'll keep an eye out to make sure nobody's messing around with it. They'll let you know if something's wrong. They'll sometimes chip-in to help maintain shared resources like roads. It's just nice being next to folks who wave and say "hi" when you're there.

On the other hand...if your neighbors are nasty, then look out. Maybe they'll trespass across your land. Maybe they'll do stuff to screw-up your property. Need a favor like temporary access across their land? No way. Have a view of something? Maybe they'll plant poplar trees to block your view (on purpose). Have an easement across their property? Well, good luck utilizing that. Are they meth cookers? Do they have teenagers/friends/whoever who might see your property as easy-pickins? The list goes on and on.

This is kinda've a common issue out in the california deserts... a lot of city slickers buy property in the desert to "get away from the hustle and bustle" of the city, only to realize so do a lot of other people... specifically people who like to ride motorcycles at 8am, shoot guns, and go offroading. This disturbs their west-side sensibilities and they start trying to change land use laws (for offroading), noise ordinances (gunfire and parties), and generally make the desert as miserable as the city is. On the other hand, most of the locals have had enough peace and quiet and are usually looking to go offroading, shoot guns, and get on with their lives, and can be valuable allies when it comes to dealing with this kind of thing. It's an important issue to realize that while you may have a "vacation home" out in one of these rural areas, the people who live there don't consider it a "vacation".

 

[The Heretic]

The key ingredient is water. Is it available year round, winter only or dry as a bone year round.
Digging a well for water is expensive.

Not just a well/lake/pond/river, but precipitation too.

If you are going to have a garden or grow any kind of food, or gather non-animal food, you will need an area where plants can grow.

I.E., locations west of the eastern foothills of the Cascades in general, although there are exceptions in the NE corners of OR and WA, northern ID, western Montana.

 

[dolooper]

Things I've thought about when looking for property:

Does it have water? How much would it cost to dig a well?
Does the soil perc? Can you put in a septic?
Does someone else own the water, mineral or timber rights?
Does it have year-round access? Who maintains the roads to it?
Does someone else have an easement across the property?
Where's the closest power?
What's cel/phone/internet access like? (if that matters to you)
Is it in a flood plain?
What kind of land clearing would you need to do to put a house in? Would you need to bring in rock/fill? What about building a road?
Does it have steep/unstable slopes?
What are the neighbors like? Is there someone to keep an eye on it while you're gone? Are the neighbors PITA who don't really want you to be there?
Are there any zoning or other restrictions on it? Environmental restrictions? Setback requirements from anything? Like wetlands or fish-bearing streams/rivers?
What kind of amenities does the nearest town have? Where's the nearest grocery, hardware or pharmacy? How's the hospital? (an important consideration if you ever get really hurt)
What's the local government like? Is the property within a reservation? How does that work if you aren't a tribal member?
Are there covenants or other deed restrictions on what you can do with the land?

If you're going to be completely disconnected from society, a lot of this may not matter to you (in theory). But, having owned family cabins and known friends who live in rural areas, this kind of stuff matters on a day-to-day basis if you ever want to spend time out there.

In terms of financing, I haven't found a bank that'll do a loan on raw land. It's almost easier to find a piece of property that has a house already on it - then you may have a shot at conventional financing. I don't know much about contract-of-sale purchases. If I ever did one of those, I'd lawyer-up to make sure everything was done right.

All very good stuff. I'll a few points here as I've recently gone through the same exercise, Joey.

I spent hours and hours on zillow.com, trulia.com, landwatch.com and more. I focused on keeping the drive less than 3 1/2 hours or so, which meant basically from Christmas Valley/La Pine-ish to Yakima or a bit north.

A large part depends on what you plan to do with it and when. For example, our needs were less than some of the folks who have a need to walk into a SHTF-ready piece of land. I figure if I have a kick *** piece of SHTF land, I need to be there to defend it, otherwise when something bad happens I'll probably end up having to fight for it anyway.

So, that meant for me it's mostly about recreation, getting away, and calling it my own.

Water: I intend to drill a well eventually, but don't mind carting water in in the near term. Regardless, both Washington and Oregon have their well logs online. If water is important to you and if it doesn't already have a well, look at well logs in the area to get an idea of how deep you can expect to go. You'll need to know, or find out, what township/range/section it's in to look it up. There are two wells near where I bought that are around 250 feet. I'll be lucky if that works out as most of the area is in the 400 foot range. As well, keep in mind that if you dig a well, chances are that you'll have to routinely document your use of the water to protect your rights to it and that you'll be one of the first to be cut when the water supply starts going away.

That creek that covers most of the property may be cool to look at and only seasonal but it may also be considered a wetland and make any legal development cost prohibitive.

I did not insist on power availability, that will play a large factor on price. I'll be putting a very small place with combo of solar and generator.

Be very careful of the zoning of the land. You might find something that is extremely attractive but that is in a open space or other zoning that makes it unusable. As well, some counties are notoriously easier to work with.

Most counties have their tax and property records online. You can learn a lot about the prospective land if you can get the tax ID. You can learn a lot about the neighbors' lands too.

Most counties have their GIS systems online too, that will allow you to look at lots overlaid with other layers like zones, roads, utilities, some easements, and the like.

If you're looking for bare land without a well and no power you can probably pretty good stuff for 1.5 - 2 k per acre or less. I ended up paying 1200/acre for 20 acres of mixed prairie and Ponderosa Pine.

I didn't focus on people offering contracts as I was paying cash. What I did notice regarding contracts is most folks expect something down, usually something like 400 bucks a month or so to make it worth their time, and a lot 5 year terms with balloon payments. On the other hand, the raw land market is still pretty soft, softer than the housing market. I wouldn't be surprised if you were able to find something along the lines of what you're looking for.

One other thing, it's like panning for gold. There are a lot of properties out there that are listed for exorbitant sums. Partly because people overpaid for them 8 or 10 years ago and partly because some folks just keep things on the market waiting for a sucker to bite. That means there's a lot of sand you gotta go through to find a nugget or two.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Hope this helps.

 

[dolooper]

Couple more thoughts.

Install Google Earth. You can get a really good sense of the topography and what the neighbors are doing with their land before you make the commitment of checking it out.

Check it out before you buy.

 

[ch139]

Joe, where are you wanting to be (more specifically)?

As far as financing and ease of buying would be to find something with a post-'76 manufactured home already on it. You're looking at less money down and already having power, water and septic. Not that the old MoHo is the palace you have always wanted, but it makes financing/buying a lot easier and also "secures" the home site for later improvements (build or newed/nicer MoHo). Not sure about Washington, but in Oregon the Land Conservation Development Corporation dictates to the counties how land is used... and they dictate Oregon is an agrarian state and the land isn't easily developed/built on.

 

[Sun195]

I'll second the Google Earth recommendation. I saw a nice looking piece of property listed for sale - price, pictures and location looked great. Got on Google Earth and discovered there was a mine up the road from it. Not really who I want for a neighbor - mostly just because of the truck traffic, but you never know what else is flowing out of a mine. If you were looking at the property during the weekend, you might not catch that fact as they don't always operate.

AMProduct's point about people's goals for owning property (recreation, quiet, etc.) vs. what the folks who already live there are doing with their land (shooting, motocross, firewood production, cattle, etc) is also worth considering. Don't like the smell of cows? Don't move close to a dairy. Don't want cattle wandering through your property? Understand how Open Range Laws work and where they exist. It's not that any of these "rural uses" are necessarily a problem - it's just people's expectations about what it looks like to live in a rural area may conflict with reality.

Also, the advice to find people locally who know about the area is good. I saw another piece of property that had a good price on it - 10 acres of land, decent house and a stream running through it. Hmmm.... it's been listed for a long time. I wonder why? Talked with my friend and it turns out the stream flowed from an old mill pond that's a super-fund site. You wouldn't necessarily know that just by looking at at it. No thanks.

Has a property been listed for a long time? Might be an opportunity to get a great deal. Or... there may be a reason why nobody else wants to buy that property. You'll really want to understand what's going on with this property (and around it).

 

[The Heretic]

This is kinda've a common issue out in the california deserts... a lot of city slickers buy property in the desert to "get away from the hustle and bustle" of the city, only to realize so do a lot of other people... specifically people who like to ride motorcycles at 8am, shoot guns, and go offroading. This disturbs their west-side sensibilities and they start trying to change land use laws (for offroading), noise ordinances (gunfire and parties), and generally make the desert as miserable as the city is. On the other hand, most of the locals have had enough peace and quiet and are usually looking to go offroading, shoot guns, and get on with their lives, and can be valuable allies when it comes to dealing with this kind of thing. It's an important issue to realize that while you may have a "vacation home" out in one of these rural areas, the people who live there don't consider it a "vacation".

I am of the opposite opinion; I believe it is often the "city slickers" who come out to the boonies to make a lot of noise/etc., and those of us who grew up out here, who live here full-time, are those who prefer the quiet life. They bring their "city life" with them - they come out for "peace and quiet", except they have to have their boom boxes going all the time, and remove the mufflers on their bikes and ATVs so they can hear them, and so on.

That's why you increasingly see no trespassing signs on properties - the "city slickers" come out, get a small lot to put their RV on and think all of the open land around them is public land they can tear up and party on, but it happens to be our private land, we just didn't feel a need to fence it off and put up signs until we saw the damage and heard the noise the "city slickers" made.

I have dirt bikes and I have guns, but I don't feel the need to be blasting music and shooting trees and tearing up the land when I can listen to my music inside my house, shooting proper targets (not putting lead into valuable timber so some logger or sawyer can hit it with his chainsaw or ripsaw), and I keep my bikes as quiet as they came from the factory.

 

[The Heretic]

Joe, where are you wanting to be (more specifically)?

As far as financing and ease of buying would be to find something with a post-'76 manufactured home already on it. You're looking at less money down and already having power, water and septic. Not that the old MoHo is the palace you have always wanted, but it makes financing/buying a lot easier and also "secures" the home site for later improvements (build or newed/nicer MoHo). Not sure about Washington, but in Oregon the Land Conservation Development Corporation dictates to the counties how land is used... and they dictate Oregon is an agrarian state and the land isn't easily developed/built on.

True, but it varies a lot from county to county. Each county has its own plan for preservation of farmland/etc., and WA county where I live is one of the most strict, in part because it has a lot of farmland and Beaverton/Hillsboro/Portland is encroaching on that land. E.G., when we sold our farm, the rules were that you could not build a house on a farm plot unless the plot itself made $80K per year in income. It is hard to subdivide too and there is little reason to do so as it is hard to get a building permit. If there was already a house then it was grandfathered in naturally. But this has done a pretty good job of keeping the cities from spreading.

Drive west out of the city and when you come to the boundary there is all of a sudden farmland.



There are a few more houses out here than before, but they are mostly on plots that can't be farmed (like mine, too steep with a small ravine running down the middle of it) and usually are in timber. For the most part, the rural farm character is very much the same as it was when I grew up here - except for all the cars passing through.

 

[The Heretic]

Couple more thoughts.

Install Google Earth. You can get a really good sense of the topography and what the neighbors are doing with their land before you make the commitment of checking it out.

Check it out before you buy.

I did that, and it is a good idea.

But there is no substitute for going out and looking at all angles and the properties around the plot you are interested in. I wanted land with trees, but a lot of landowners will cut down the trees, take the money and run. They are supposed to (by law) replant trees and keep the brush down until the trees grow up and so on. They are also supposed to handle problems with erosion, etc.

I saw a lot of land where they did not do this and guess who gets stuck with the bill?

This especially happens when the landowner defaults on their loan.

Google Earth or Maps are not current satellite imagery, i.e., things change since the last images were put together. My neighbors just clear cut most of their trees. That won't show up for years on Google Earth.

Also, it is pretty hard to tell from satellite photos what the lay of the land is, or what kind of vegetation is on the land, etc.

It is a start, but you really have to go look for yourself.

Also, the plot lines on the maps are usually misaligned and can be off by 50 to 100 feet easily. I saw plots on Redfin that just were not at all the right plot for the land for sale - they must have some automated algorithm for which plot on the map to select for the address, but for rural land this can be wrong a significant portion of the time. The more rural it is, especially if it is land with no house on it, the more likely the plot on the map will be the wrong plot for the address. Some plots have no address.

 

[slingshot1943]

With limited funds for property it may be easiest to buy on private contract. When buying on contract be sure seller has title to it and get it put in escrow. The fees are not much and you can offer to pay the escrow fees.