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Anyone have problems with Top Notch Tactical?

Discussion in 'Business Discussion & Reviews' started by IronMonster, May 18, 2012.

  1. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Just curious, I'm beginning to get a little worried. I bought a new Noveske Low Pro 16 inch upper which was fairly big money... Since they are local a week or so after I placed the order I emailed and asked if they had a shipping date figuring that I should already have it.... They informed me that the standard LowPro upper they actually didn't but they did have a switch block upper and it would be $180 more.... So at this point we are talking almost $1600 with tax.... I know Noveske is way backloged so I figured I'd pay the extra even though I don't need the switch block since this Rifle will never be used suppressed Anyway it showed up yesterday and does not have the Noveske marked Troy sites that it clearly says on there website are included as well as shown in the picture. The sites are pushing $300 bought the hard way so it's a pretty big deal, if I had to buy the sites I'm damn near to the cost of the whole rifle..... Anyway I've sent two emails asking them if they're going to send me the sites with no reply so far... So my question is if anyone had with these guys, are they good guys? Should I be filing a claim with the credit card company to stop payment? I don't want to overreact but I definitely want what I bought and paid for.....
     
  2. ARod206

    ARod206 Seattle area New Member

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    So sorry for the inconvenience, all of our you staff are in Oregon at an event that is why you haven't heard from anyone just yet. I'm their PR and Marketing director and not at the event just yet. But I will see to it that you have an answer as soon as possible!
     
  3. EMP9596

    EMP9596 Two Trees West of Camas, WA. Active Member

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    all of our you staff are in Oregon? :huh:

    Be glad it was not me as a customer... Sounds like PPP on someones part?


    Just say'n
     
  4. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    I spoke with the fellow who posted above... He indicated that Noveske no longer includes the BUIS on uppers, however they used to and I guess did not inform these guys of the change... So they will try and get a set from Noveske but if that failed they would get me some sites... So I'll report back once I have them in hand...
     
  5. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Well I am waiting for a call back from the owner.... I was offered a set of Noveske sites at cost (which on the website where clearly stated where included) or a set of sites I wouldn't own for free...... I simply ask for a refund, I bought the upper from them becuase it listed the sites as included.... I can buy the upper I want from CTD for $1217 shipped.... I paid $1219 + tax + $180 for the switchblock I didnt need because I figured it was about the same as paying the $1217 + buying the sites....

    They said it was a mistake on there part and it should not have said the sites where included..... But it does say that and I have documentation to prove it says that, as well as shows them in the picture they posted of the upper.... So do you think a reputable company would just buck up and do whats right and hand over what there website said was included?

    So I am waiting to see what they say about a refund.... Probably would be the best thing for me, I could buy the upper and the sites for $100 less than what I have invested with these guys....

    All in all so far been a pain the the kiester
     
  6. Benihaus

    Benihaus Portland American

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    huh, seems like a piss poor operation they got goin on there. Personally they would have the item in their shop and I would have my money back in my hand or they would have a BBB complaint, disputed credit card charges and the biggest slander campaign they could ever imagine on their hands.... but thats just me, Im kind of an @$$hole.
     
    dakaham and (deleted member) like this.
  7. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Ok so I am not a happy camper... I just got off the phone with the owner, Alan and he just did not seem to get what I was saying... He said they would charge me a restocking fee if I returned it! It's there screw up... He insists the best he can do is sell me a set of sites at cost.. So what ever I do it has cost me money because these guys screwed up... Not good biz...
     
  8. EMP9596

    EMP9596 Two Trees West of Camas, WA. Active Member

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    Scroll down and read. They are one of these companys it appears that will run your card on something they do not have in stock...(cash flow problem maybe??)

    A reputable company will not run your card till they ship or they have conformation that it has been "dropped shipped".

    Top Notch Tactical Reviews - topnotchtactical.com/ Ratings at ResellerRatings

    Searched @ Dogpile Web Search

    {quote] Stay away from this company! Their website will indicate an item to be in stock when it is not. They immediately charged my card, however. When I found out the item was not in stock,& would not be in stock for months, I cancelled my order & they charged me a 20% "cancellation fee". I've reported them to my credit card's fraud division. What a nightmare! From now on I'll stick with K-Var & Atlantic Firearms!"
     
  9. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Sounds like a load of crap. If they're running a tight margin, I guess I can see where the owner feels like he can't give away a set of sights- but he should DEFINITELY not charge you a re-stocking fee to return something when the mistake was not your own. That's some commie bullbubblegum if I ever saw some.

    If it was me, and I'm speaking as a small-business owner who's had to eat his mistakes before, I'd call John Noveske and ask him to split the cost of sights with me for you, since they failed to inform their vendors they were changing policy. If that's how it really went down.
     
  10. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    And I'm just gonna add- If I've quoted a customer a specific price for services, and then I order from my dealer and find out the price has gone up or something else has changed, do you think I go back to my customer and go "uhh, err, derp, it's gonna be moar muny, derk?" Nope- I eat it. The customer should NEVER pay for anyone else's foulup, miscommunication, incorrect expectations, etc, etc, etc. You quote a price, you bill the price.

    $240 for some sights? I've paid $1,500 out-of-pocket to ensure my client gets what they paid for.

    Give the man his re-stocking fee, since there's not much you can do to force him not to, and spread the word he's a piece of crap.
     
  11. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

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    In my business, my word is my bond. If I screw up and make a mistake in an offer I make, I have to eat it if it costs me more money. I don't have personal experience with this company, but if the OP's assertions are correct, I wouldn't do business with them for a ham sandwich.

    As bkb0000 said, give them their restocking fee and spread the word about their business practices.
     
  12. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    photo.jpg

    So here is a screen grab from there website... It clearly says they are included... Noveske 16" Light Recce, Low-PRO UPPER | Top Notch Tactical And link to the page now, they have added (not included) to the page but the pictures still show the sites on the upper....


    And I feel the same way... I have owned my own business for 10 years and have had to eat my share of mistakes, its what you do if you are a honest and honorable business owner..... The way I see it is worst case at full retail the sites would have cost $200.... Cost is likely $125-140 or something so if you would have had to give up the profit on the upper and broke even and you would have got yourself out of a jam that was your fault and had a happy customer.... Instead evidently its more important to make the hundred or so bucks profit and tell the customer tuff luck, yeah we screwed up but so what and I wont even refund your money without making you pay a restocking fee on my mistake! I spoke with the owner for 11 minuets, I offered to eat the shipping and I offered to hand deliver the upper back to him... no dice I ask nice, I offered to take $180 off the cost of the upper and keep it, I said I would take the troy BUIS if the Noveskes where a problem to get..... No dice....

    photo.jpg
     
  13. rayd8

    rayd8 Formerly Portland, now Alabama! Member

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    Hopefully you did this with a credit card.......fix it with them...
     
  14. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    DSG Arms has those Troy BUIS sights with the Noveske stamping for $198 if you need to get them elsewhere. Troy Industries Battle Sights Front & Rear Set Noveske Marked - Black

    On DSG's site they say they are standard on their complete Noveske rifles, but an option if you just are ordering an upper.

    Are you sure Top Notch says the Troy sites are included on UPPERS only? Because three vendors I looked at only include them on complete rifles, not but on uppers only.

    Wait - I was able to expand the Top Notch picture of the ad in the above post - you are CORRECT - the ad did list the Troy sights as included with the upper.

    Here is the wording on the Top Notch Noveske 16" Lo-Pro upper NOW as of tonight:

    16" Light Recce, LO-PRO:
    --16" Cold Hammer Forged 5.56mm Barrel
    --Made of Mil Spec M249 Machine Gun barrel steel, with heavy M249 Chrome Lining,
    (appx. 2 times as thick as an M4 or M16)
    --Extended Feed Ramps
    --Same weight as M4 barrel, 1 lb, 9 oz, but improved contour for maximum rigidity, no M203 notch
    --MP HP tested with certification
    --1 in 7" twist
    --Mil Spec Phosphate finish
    --Mid length gas system
    --1/2x28 threads
    --Low-profile gas block pinned to barrel
    --Flip-up front and rear sights (Not Included)
    --Forged Vltor MUR upper receiver featuring an anti-rotation interface with the handguard
    --11" free floated handguard w/ 1913 rails
    --Shot peened and MP tested bolt
    --Auto carrier with properly staked carrier key
    --Forged charging handle
    --Vortex Flash Suppressor

    You are lucky that credit card companies are much better than they used to be about sales mistakes/fraud.

    Advice:
    1. Keep that upper in the box - of course avoid the temptation to turn it into a used upper by shooting it, mounting things on it, etc.
    2. Take pics of the upper, inc documenting the serial number as you are preparing it for return shipping. You don't want them claiming it was damaged in your possession.
    3. Contact your credit card company, preferably on line (everything is better in WRITING in a matter like this - no more talking to them by phone) - they all have customer service website now that including the ability to 'dispute charges'.

    Explain the above and make it the credit card company's headache. The CC company will not charge you any interest on a purchase that is under dispute. Vendors HATE disputed charges. (Carolina Shooters Supply had a cow and cancelled my account because I just threatened to do it, but they left me no choice). It puts the pressure on them, not you.

    4. Typically you will only be out the cost of return shipping. Use REAL shipping with delivery confirmation adult signature when you send it back - Fedex, UPS, etc. Get the tracking ID number from the shipper - you will need to provide it to the credit card company.

    I would start the above process right now. Don't waste time calling them or negotiating. Make it the credit card company's issue. Those parasites and their interest rates - you might as well get some value out of them. Consumer laws force them to do this for disputed charges. They aren't helping you out of the goodness of their heart.

    Once Top Notch gets that amount frozen my guess is that you will be getting your sights. Personally, I wouldn't stress paying a little more for the switch block because that substantially increases the resale value - highly desired feature. You did actually agree to that additional feature/cost also.

    Good luck.
     
  15. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    All I can say is this sale is going to be as bad for them as I can make it.... I am good friends with both the ex president and his son and current vice president of WAC and I'll make sure they know what happened as well as every forum I participate in and my 700 "tactical" facebook friends.... No reason why anyone should have to deal with a outfit that does not stand behind there advertising or willing to do the right thing at the expense of a few bucks

    I think the correct approach at this point is to dispute the charges, I'll proceed to that effect today
     
  16. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    Isn't the old saying that if you give great service your customer may tell one or two people, but if you give bad they'll tell dozens or hundreds?

    Not smart on their part. They messed up with that ad and need to make it right. Sometimes as a company you have to take a hit. I've had a service company for 28 years right out of HS, I've seen it all.
     
    dakaham and (deleted member) like this.
  17. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Man I can't win on this build... I filed a claim with the card o these guys and ordered a upper from CTD for $400 less money, came in 3 days and they even include a prepaid return shipping label on the odd chance you need to return it.... I love Cheaper than Dirt... Fast, great service. Anyway I went ahead and ordered a set of GG&G BUIS with trijicon inserts front and back, $289... Ordered them on the 19th so I figured I better check the tracking number... Shows they where delivered an a town 15 miles away and some guy named Williams signed for them. Not even the same town as the shipping address let alone name! So now I am fighting with the out fit I bought them from... They said since they where shipped to the right address and delivered to the wrong one that I have to file a claim with UPS and they might admit they screwed up but more likely not... Mean while I still have $1550 in the other upper I can't return yet and a $289 set of sights that are in someone else's hands in another town! Man I should have just walked into Rainer Arms and bought a compete gun and been done with it...
     
  18. Benihaus

    Benihaus Portland American

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    Online sales.... hmm. Ill pay upwards of 10% more if I can go to a store and walk out with the item. Pay it off at the end of the month or whatever.. but if you use credit someone still has ya by the balls
     
  19. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    If I lived anywhere near Rainier Arms, I'd never order anything online again.