Anyone had any experiance with Member " Ice Arms "?

[IronMonster]

The first thing I want to say is no matter what I say, I take responsibility for this. If I would have done my research I would have seen the countless bad reviews and problems. This is a great example of why you should only buy from reputable company's with a known track record and that Google is your friend.

<broken link removed>

I was looking for an upper for a project and saw an offering on Slickguns from Ice Arms that looked just like what I wanted. I had just sold some stuff so I was flush and ready to jump so I just ordered one. The stuff looked pro, the website is pro, everything you would expect. The grand total of my order was $809 so its not chump change. The first thing that should have been a hint something might not be right was I was contacted by Colin from Ice Arms and told their credit card server was down and ask if I could pay via Paypal. I had the dough in paypal anyway so on the 15th of August they send me a money request and I sent them the money.

So here we are almost 4 weeks later and no parts. I start doing a bit of searching on Ice Arms and find countless horror story's about folks being flat ripped off, junk parts and every other issue you could think of. They have 12 negative BBB claims in the last 12 months, 4 for non delivery. I don't know that I have ever seen so much negative stuff about one outfit.

So I started a paypal "dispute" tonight which gives the seller 20 days to respond. I have asked for a full refund and stated that if UPS shows up with a package from them I will refuse and request it be returned to sender.


I did a little search on NWF and see that Colin AKA Ice Arms is a member here. He has not signed on since 11/13.

So anyway, in his profile he claimed to be in Ferndale however they list there business address in New Hampshire. Just wondering if anyone here had actually dealt with the guy.

I hope I can get this resolved, I am more pissed at myself than anything for not doing some research before dropping that kind of dough. I had planned on buying a BCM upper but they have been out of stock on it for a few months and its $200 more without a BCG. I got excited when I saw this one and jumped feet first into a hole that I couldn't see the bottom. No fault but mine. But at least if I can I want to alert others to read up on these guys before you send them money.

I'll update this if something happens.

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[Kruel J]

IMHO, they are con artists. They had a contest a while back to name their new AR gas-operated system. If you were picked you supposedly won an upper. Nobody ever won and I even sent a PM asking if a winner was picked (I submitted an entry). Never hear a word back.

 

[IronMonster]

Yeah I saw that thread when I searched for them on here.. They call it the "Nameless" on there site, I suppose that way they got the publicity without having to honor the giveaway?

 

[Kruel J]

Yep. Start a thread and hype it yet don't deliver the goods. Scammers. I won't have any of their products in my safe.

 

[rutilate]

Ice arms has screwed over a number of people in New England. There are a couple of vicious flame threads on northeastshooters.com in the forums. I would follow through with every dispute resolution option you have at your disposal and point paypal and all other authorities to the northeast shooters threads.

 

[IronMonster]

On a side note does anyone know what it takes to have listings on slickguns? Not that I think they have any blame here but knowing what I know now I am surprised they are supporting/promoting these guys. Can anyone post on there? Do you pay to advertize? I think I need to shoot an email off to someone at slickguns and at least point them towards some of the reviews and BBB stuff.

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

I hope you get your hard earned money back !

 

[mrblond]

I dont know what Paypal will do. I do know its stated that you can't use paypal for firearms but I am not sure of parts. You might goggle that and see how it could get handled by them.

 

[IronMonster]

I read up on it a bit, It says

We don't allow PayPal members to buy or sell any kind of firearm, whether it's in working order or not. The same goes for certain firearm parts and ammunition.

For example, using PayPal, you can't buy or sell:

• Any firearm, including rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether they're for sport and recreation, collectibles, or curio or relic firearms.
• Firearm parts, including but not limited to receivers and frames, silencers, and kits designed to modify guns so that they fire automatically. High capacity magazines, multi-burst trigger activators, and camouflaging firearm containers are other items in this category.
• Ammunition, including propellants like gunpowder or blank ammunition; ammunition or cartridge cases; and primers, bullets, or propellant powder designed for any firearm.

I don't think anything I bought would be considered prohibited, It sounds like I should not have said they where gun parts in the dispute though.

 

[mrblond]

good. hopefully all goes well.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

There is no way that anything even like $800 is going out on the net! That's why we have gun shops that can order that sort of thing. I'll pay the difference.

Monster, I hope you fully recover your $$$!

 

[Soj1057]

I'm sorry this happened to you, but I'm glad you posted this. A coworker just sent me their link a few days ago because I'm looking for some parts for a current build. They suggested that I look at the parts they had, the price was right. I'm glad I waited now. Ill forward this info to my coworkers.

 

[The Heretic]

The first clue was them saying their credit card server was down.

This doesn't happen generally, and you can just tell them you will wait until it is back up.

Sorry, but at that point they have already scammed you.

They probably had their merchant account closed by the CC payment companies because they had too many disputes.

 

[IronMonster]

Yep, I made that same assessment after the fact. I should have just backed out when I had the chance, and I did have a chance.

 

[IronMonster]

There is no way that anything even like $800 is going out on the net! That's why we have gun shops that can order that sort of thing. I'll pay the difference.

Monster, I hope you fully recover your $$$!

Whats worse yet is Rainer Arms is less than 3 miles from my shop in their big new building. They are not the cheapest at anything but they have a pretty amazing inventory and they are knowledgeable and I can walk in there and deal face to face. Sometimes being a cheap bastard does not pay.

 

[jbett98]

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little.
When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all.

When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done

If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."
John Ruskin

 

[jluck]

They had you use PayPal so you would have no recourse. You bought gun parts through PP, No? I would think AR15 parts are at the top of the anti-gun PayPal's list. A uppers whole name is upper receiver BTW.

I would think anything less than no refund and getting banned from PayPal, You'd be doing good.

Good luck.

 

[JedB]

Whats worse yet is Rainer Arms is less than 3 miles from my shop in their big new building. They are not the cheapest at anything but they have a pretty amazing inventory and they are knowledgeable and I can walk in there and deal face to face. Sometimes being a cheap bastard does not pay.

There is an old Spanish expression: "Barrato vale caro"

Going cheap is really expensive.

In your case, you will have to buy the items twice and that stinks.

Personally, i'd rather pay market or slightly more for a known product, than to have to deal with buying it twice. Thank you though for your write up, as I now have one less dealer/reseller to worry about.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Whats worse yet is Rainer Arms is less than 3 miles from my shop in their big new building. They are not the cheapest at anything but they have a pretty amazing inventory and they are knowledgeable and I can walk in there and deal face to face. Sometimes being a cheap bastard does not pay.

Yes! I've been bitten by that dog before!

 

[Joe Link]

Whats worse yet is Rainer Arms is less than 3 miles from my shop in their big new building. They are not the cheapest at anything but they have a pretty amazing inventory and they are knowledgeable and I can walk in there and deal face to face. Sometimes being a cheap bastard does not pay.

And they're a Supporting Vendor here