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Anyone ever play with a 30-06 Ackley Improved?

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by orygun, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I love the 30-06, but I'm also a sucker for the unusual. So, I'm giving thought to having one of my 30-06s rechambered to 30-06 Improved.
    Anyone have any experience with the 30-06 Ackley Improved? If so, what did you think of it? What kind of velocity increase did you see?
     
  2. BANE

    BANE Battle Ground WA. Well-Known Member

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    Yes its a great round.. but i sold it and went with a 6.5 Gibbs. That is a 30-06 or 270 case fire formed to the 6.5mm and Ackley Improved shoulder that was a 1000 meter coyote Eater! very accurate and fast.
    both are worth the money..
    If you need a gun smith. the one that did my builds is out of Ridgefield Wa. his number is..
    Jon Beagle 360-727-3248
     
  3. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Bumping this up to see if anyone else has an opinion.
    Been a long time...
     
  4. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    Going by memory, I believe the '06 Ackley was considered a "fail" by Parker himself. Not enough gain to merit the trouble. Many of his cartridges fall into this category and he had no trouble saying so. It is kinda weird how the .280 AI was such a improvement and wildly successful and yet so close in caliber to the .30.
     
  5. MountainBear

    MountainBear Sweet Home, OR Well-Known Member

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    I have a 1903 Springfield I'm rebuilding right now that someone punched out to '06 Ackley. Trying to decide whether to keep the barrel or strip it and replace it with a straight up .30-06. So I'm interested to see what people say as well. I already have seven or so other .30-06's, so it wouldn't be horrible to have one slightly odd...
     
  6. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well, just a quick peek at the Nosler #6 manual shows slightly better than 100 fps gain with 180gr bullet. Maybe this is why Ackley thought it was a "fail". Not enough gain for the effort.
    However nearly 3000 fps with a 180gr bullet out of an '06 is nothing to sneeze at.

    Just wanting to know if anyone can validate this thru their own experience.
     
  7. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    3k from a '06 is great for sure! I believe P.O. Aclkey had a 200 fps threshold before he considered it worthwhile. This is going totally be memory as I haven't researched his work for a long-long time.
     
  8. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    It is a great cartridge, get P.O. Ackleys loading data on it and ballistics.
    Anything he developed was a great improvement over the original and fun to play with.
    Get some empty brass and some cornmeal LOL

    This 2 volume set, I will probably have up for sale when I fnd them here. It is a like new set of Volume I and Volume II but.............. I will have to locate them first.
    Here is what they are. The finest books on high velocity ammo ever done.
    They are very very difficult to find anymore.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ct_details?ie=UTF8&me=&qid=1414660711&sr=1-10

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...ie=UTF8&condition=used&sr=1-10&qid=1414660711
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2014
  9. Marine Airedale

    Marine Airedale Central Oregon Coast Member

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    I have a 30-06 Ackley Improved on a M70 action. I absolutely love it! Granted, it is not that much of a velocity increase from a standard .06. But, IMHO what you do gain is the benefits of being a non tapered case with a sharp shoulder, very little to no case stretch. Once fire formed, I have yet to full length re-size one. I just neck re-size and go for it. Besides, it is just a cool looking cartridge as all Ackley rounds are!
     
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  10. 3MTA3

    3MTA3 DMZ between Liberty and Tyranny Behind Enemy Lines Bronze Supporter

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  11. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    The 06 Springfield is a hard one to improve on. A little change in the shoulder doesn't do much for this one.
    Some of his improved designs were for changing the pressures a little. More vel with less pressure.
    That 06 case is responsible for the creation of so many other cartridges, the 270 win the 308, the 243, and many many more are all based off that case. The 06 was pretty optimal though for more tasks than most all others. 110 gr to 220 grain it covered damned near everything game wise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2014
    salmonriverjohn likes this.
  12. Greenbug

    Greenbug Bend Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of Ackley improved cartridge rifles, a 260 and a 338-06. The 260 is a huge improvement over the standard 260 Remington (almost 300 FPS). Having never owned a standard 338-06, I couldn't speak to any velocity gains that the improved version may have, but it shoots a 215 grain Sierra gameking at 2750 FPS and works well on Elk.

    I suspect you could get a little more velocity out of the improved 30-06 case if you tinkered around with some different powders, but why not just get a 300 magnum? The one thing I noticed about my Ackley improved chamberings is that they are a little more tempermental on feeding smoothly when you have a magazine full of rounds. I.E. when the mag is full (4-5 rounds) the first 1 or 2 rounds don't feed as smoothly as standard body taper cartridges do. Probably could be fixed by making or buying a different angled magazine follower, but I guess I'm lazy and just put less rounds in the mag. I only seem to need one (or none) anymore!
     
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  13. Marine Airedale

    Marine Airedale Central Oregon Coast Member

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    Some arguments could be that '06 brass is allot less expensive than 30 caliber magnum, of course I have 500 plus cases for the .06 AI and burns less powder than a magnum as well. There just may be reasons for driving a 06AI than a large velocity increase. For me it is not a bother, since I hand load all of my bolt action ammunition. Have not purchased a factory round for a bolt gun in over 40 years.

    Nothing is more fun than showing someone an Ackley case fire formed from GI brass (even though I don't use GI brass much in that rifle), you get the "what the heck is that" look ... priceless. Since most folks out there have no idea what a Ackley Improved round is. Of course I get almost the same look when someone looks at a good percentage of my .338 Win Mag rounds and they say 7mm Rem Mag on the bottom ;)

    My M70 runs the AI rounds just fine. Was just looking through my data on this thing ... my current hunting load with H4350 and 165 pills is running at 3100 fps through a 24" tube even though the Nosler 5th edition shows 2900 fps with the 165's and does not list a load for the H4350 powder, just IMR. That particular load is accurate, 5 rounds have a velocity spread of 19 fps, but ... the rounds OAL is a smidge longer than standard .06 as most of my loads for bolt rifles are.

    a 338-06 AI is on my wish list. Would make a great packing around rifle up North.

    I am with you all the way Greenbug, with my .06 AI and .338 WM as well I have never had to shoot a critter more than once. They may take one less step with the .338, usually none, but both cartridges have performed exceptionally well over the years.
     
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  14. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    I have an Ackley chambered rifle and I love it.
    What I have found over the years is when a rifle is AI-ed, it will almost always shoot the next heavier bullet at the MV of the next lighter bullet.
    A .270AI shoots a 150gr bullet at standard .270 130gr velocity.
    A 30-06AI will shoot a 165gr bullet at the standard's 150 velocity, and a 180gr at or close to a standard 165gr velocity.

    When you factor in the increases in BC and SD, the gains are worth it IMO, especially at the outer ranges of effectiveness of a given round.

    The lack of taper and case growth when resizing is just a bonus. Brass seems to last forever.
     
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  15. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Orygun, there simply cannot be anything gained by "improving" a bland, mundane, garden-variety, unexciting and generic round such as the .30-06 Springfield. THIS is why Ackley considered it a fail (actually, if the truth be told, I bet he faked all his data and didn't even attempt this one, knowing the dismal result ahead of time).

    Now, if you want to try an Ackley improvement, start with the .250 Savage (or, .257 Roberts). You will find here that the Master considered both of these improvements successful.

    Undoubtedly because of what he had to start with. It's all so very simple.

    Okay, before I get flamed I better find that smiley icon real fast.....wait....oh, here it is: :p
     
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  16. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    The 260 and 280 fared pretty well in Ackleys hands too.... ;)
     
  17. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    There was no .260 (Rem) in Ackley's day.
    But what he did, was take the .257 Roberts case (57mm Mauser case) and neck it up to 6.5mm (.264) and then improved it with straight(er) case walls and a 40* shoulder. It was/is essentially a 6.5mm Mauser Ackley.
    His "Pet Name" for it was the .260AAR, for .260 All-Around Rifle.
    He said it was some of his finest work.

    http://www.accuratereloading.com/6.5roberts.html

    I know, I have one, and It's a freakin' PEACH of a shooter, and the source of my choice for a moniker.
    A li'l hotter than a .260 Rem, and not the Barrel Burner that the 6.5x.284Win is.
    130gr bullets at 3kfps and 123gr Sierra MKs at 3100+.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  18. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Sptipatch, you give me the giggles! That's funny stuff.

    Everyone else, I appreciate the input. I'm gonna start talking to gunsmiths this spring and see if I can make it happen. Worst thing that can happen? I don't like what I've done and I end up putting a Pac Nor barrel on my gun in the boring, garden variety 30-06.:D
     
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  19. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I believe the reason the 280AI became so successful is twofold. When the 280 was introduced it was intended for Remington's semi-auto and pump rifles. Remington thought it best to keep pressures a little lower than similar cartridges like the 270 and 30-06. The lower pressure of the factory load is part of why the improved cartridge is able to boost such large gains, but I think what is a larger factor is that Remington didn't start with the 30-06 case when making the 280, they started with the 30-03. The 280 case is longer than the 30-06 and especially when "Improved", gives more room for powder.

    Hmm, a 30 version of a 280 AI?
     
  20. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    30AI? Brilliant! DO IT! I guess we cant actually use "AI" because it wasn't one of "his creations" like the 260, Just 30 Improved? That don't sound as cool. :(
     
    orygun likes this.