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Anybody shoot on Weyerhaeuser land despite WARNINGS?
- Thread Starter clash
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Gentlemen, lets dial it down a bit.
I hope the answer is clear
I hope the answer is clear
Joe said I can shoot on private property without permission.Gentlemen, lets dial it down a bit.
I hope the answer is clear
Here, Joe is the LAW, so I'm good to go!
Why would the entity's attorney be asking anyone a defendant questions? Is the entity's attorney the district attorney? The "entity" can report an unauthorized person on their property to an LE agency. That's the only power the "entity" has. If a responding officer sees a reason to believe a crime has been committed, he may very well elect to arrest. He's going to want to know what measures the "entity" has made to ensure unwanted people will stay away - like required posted "no trespassing" signs at egress and ingress areas, and he's going to ask the perpetrator why they had reason to believe they could be where they were. A decision will be made based on the answers to all those questions, regardless of the entity's will. The "entity" can't press charges - only the DA can do that. Contrary to popular belief, only the state can make a decision to prosecute, and they can and will do so or not regardless of what the "victim" wants. It's often helpful to have the cooperation of the victim, but never necessary, or even necessarily regarded.
I stated a "fact." If you can refute it with holy cited-sources, please do so.
Apparently we've had some kind of beef in the past... RE: your road raging cyclist comment. You must have quite the internet argument memory, and grudge-holding capacity!
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Solv3nt, there's no need to ask Ben on his qualifications. It's pretty apparent to me that he is aware of the ORS, etc. He also is spot on in calling me on speeding vs. trespassing.
Besides, I would pick riding ANY DAY.
However, criminal "intent" is not hard to prove. If you were caught in the act, the intent is presumed.
If we were to set aside the aspect of common mutual respect, here's a more practical approach:
Which would you choose:
- Spending hundred$ on fines and thousand$ (yes, thousands) defending yourself against a trespass charge (that is, if you choose to use an attorney); or,
- Spending that money, if you have it, on ammo and more toys.
I'm with solv3nt, well spoken. I was out rockclimbing on Weyerhauser land last Saturday and plan on doing it again next Sat as well. There was no signs anywhere and the gate was open, but I left my shooting stuff at home and would never shoot on their property. If they ever intimated to please don't go up there to climb, I'd be sad but go elsewhere. I mean, there's no sign that one shouldn't crap in your wifes cornflakes in the morning, but common sense alone suggest you better not. We can all try to do good and it usually comes back in a good way. Driving down the road a ways from any Weyerhosuer gate or property usually gets you a good and legal public land spot to shoot.
Reminds me of my youth. Story is this: there use to be a stream that had Carnelian in it, a deep rosy red quartz. I was volunteering to do lapidary in the old VA Center almost 40 years back, the one that got torn down a while back. The road up the stream was gated, and for convenience to them, the company had given the local farmers, a young couple, the key. They said: "just ask them for the key and they'll give it to you". So I showed up one Saturday AM with lust in my heart and dreams of wading up the creek to get a massively beautiful slab of perfect carnelian. Except that these folks had sheep and all the Ewes seemed to have chosen my play day to have lambs. I don't know if I volunteered or was volunteered but in short order I was all in and the woman was helping me to get the work done "do this do that do this now go clean that..." about as fast as I could get one task done I had another. The words and commands flew as she she and her husband ran all a**holes to elbows around helping birth the lambs. After about 7 hours it tapered off so we could catch our breaths and I realized my dream day was all but blown at that point. She thanked me for the effort and said they could handle the rest. I thanked them for the experience, told that that I'd be there anytime they were planning on getting inundated with work to just call me and if I was free I'd come out, but I'd be along later at sometime to go rockhounding.
We'll I later learned that " just ask them for the key and they'll give it to you" wasn't true. It might have been true when they first gave her the key. But years of Dirkwads tearing up the roads/making their own, leaving the gates open so livestock could take off, etc etc had soured the folks to the public. I mean, we all know how we all are. Turns out that the woman had an attitude test and routinely and usually said NO KEY FOR YOU to what I thought were otherwise normal folks. About everybody in fact. She had to LIKE you to give you the key it turns out, something you couldn't rush. Plenty were turned away by "that bubblegum" (which she wasn't at all). Not only was I later always greeted like family, but the very next time I went up there the woman gave me the largest piece of solid, non-fractured carnelian I'd ever seen or heard about -anywhere. It was almost frikkan boulder. In all my rockhounding I later learned that there probably wasn't anything left half that size in the creek. Big. She's found it out walking and had no use for it. I always started my trips out there, before asking for the key, asking if they needed any extra help and it always cracked her up and although my offer was genuine, was never taken up on it.
I was later disappointed to learn when I slabbed that rock on the VA's massive 18" slab saw, that the interior was a paleish orange, despite the bright red exterior. Lots of vets got to work up pieces, and I still have the awesome memory of nearly pissing my pants when she so causally gifted that rock to me. And the memories of that amazing day where sheep were birthing so fast our heads were spinning.
That's all I have.
Reminds me of my youth. Story is this: there use to be a stream that had Carnelian in it, a deep rosy red quartz. I was volunteering to do lapidary in the old VA Center almost 40 years back, the one that got torn down a while back. The road up the stream was gated, and for convenience to them, the company had given the local farmers, a young couple, the key. They said: "just ask them for the key and they'll give it to you". So I showed up one Saturday AM with lust in my heart and dreams of wading up the creek to get a massively beautiful slab of perfect carnelian. Except that these folks had sheep and all the Ewes seemed to have chosen my play day to have lambs. I don't know if I volunteered or was volunteered but in short order I was all in and the woman was helping me to get the work done "do this do that do this now go clean that..." about as fast as I could get one task done I had another. The words and commands flew as she she and her husband ran all a**holes to elbows around helping birth the lambs. After about 7 hours it tapered off so we could catch our breaths and I realized my dream day was all but blown at that point. She thanked me for the effort and said they could handle the rest. I thanked them for the experience, told that that I'd be there anytime they were planning on getting inundated with work to just call me and if I was free I'd come out, but I'd be along later at sometime to go rockhounding.
We'll I later learned that " just ask them for the key and they'll give it to you" wasn't true. It might have been true when they first gave her the key. But years of Dirkwads tearing up the roads/making their own, leaving the gates open so livestock could take off, etc etc had soured the folks to the public. I mean, we all know how we all are. Turns out that the woman had an attitude test and routinely and usually said NO KEY FOR YOU to what I thought were otherwise normal folks. About everybody in fact. She had to LIKE you to give you the key it turns out, something you couldn't rush. Plenty were turned away by "that bubblegum" (which she wasn't at all). Not only was I later always greeted like family, but the very next time I went up there the woman gave me the largest piece of solid, non-fractured carnelian I'd ever seen or heard about -anywhere. It was almost frikkan boulder. In all my rockhounding I later learned that there probably wasn't anything left half that size in the creek. Big. She's found it out walking and had no use for it. I always started my trips out there, before asking for the key, asking if they needed any extra help and it always cracked her up and although my offer was genuine, was never taken up on it.
I was later disappointed to learn when I slabbed that rock on the VA's massive 18" slab saw, that the interior was a paleish orange, despite the bright red exterior. Lots of vets got to work up pieces, and I still have the awesome memory of nearly pissing my pants when she so causally gifted that rock to me. And the memories of that amazing day where sheep were birthing so fast our heads were spinning.
That's all I have.
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This is true. I must be thinking fast-forward to the trial portion. Lot's happened between initial 911 call and trial - LEO shows up.... hauls off perp(s).... "entities" attorneys get with DA... etc, etc, etc....
I do know that those questions are usually asked.
- Thread Starter
- #69
Guys, asking this question here was a bad idea. I should have realized where I was and stuck to guns, and guns alone. For that and all the turmoil this caused, I apologize. I am sincerely sorry!
I found the sign odd in loo of the fact that the property was accessible. Trespassing to me is being somewhere you are not supposed to be, or refusing to leave one's property. That's clear cut, and codified in law, and state representatives have voted on it, and the governor signed it! That's what the law says! Trespassing to me isn't arbitrarily decided by the property owner once they have freely decided to let you on their property.
That same sign could be "No standing on 1 leg on this property for 10 seconds" Which would mean that if the sheriff saw me standing on 1 leg for 10 seconds, on said property I would immediately be arrested. Shooting is a legal activity just as much as standing on 1 leg is a legal activity. So I don't see the difference.
So the sign frankly doesn't make sense (legal power wise), simply because a property owner's dictates about their property "ISN'T STATE LAW". Especially after they let you on said property!
If the property were closed off to the public and you ventured in, then YES, as the law states, that's trespassing. But I don't think the law allows anyone to define what trespassing is on their property based on any arbitrary action they deem should be trespassing. That would be allowing people to make their own law, and asking law enforcement to enforce laws that people dream off.
Again for those who are easily distracted, or who are looking to demean people the question wasn't: Is it right or wrong to do it (That's a lot of what I got here as answers), The question was: Does the sign carry power of law?
This thread has run its course, mods feel free to lock it!
I found the sign odd in loo of the fact that the property was accessible. Trespassing to me is being somewhere you are not supposed to be, or refusing to leave one's property. That's clear cut, and codified in law, and state representatives have voted on it, and the governor signed it! That's what the law says! Trespassing to me isn't arbitrarily decided by the property owner once they have freely decided to let you on their property.
That same sign could be "No standing on 1 leg on this property for 10 seconds" Which would mean that if the sheriff saw me standing on 1 leg for 10 seconds, on said property I would immediately be arrested. Shooting is a legal activity just as much as standing on 1 leg is a legal activity. So I don't see the difference.
So the sign frankly doesn't make sense (legal power wise), simply because a property owner's dictates about their property "ISN'T STATE LAW". Especially after they let you on said property!
If the property were closed off to the public and you ventured in, then YES, as the law states, that's trespassing. But I don't think the law allows anyone to define what trespassing is on their property based on any arbitrary action they deem should be trespassing. That would be allowing people to make their own law, and asking law enforcement to enforce laws that people dream off.
Again for those who are easily distracted, or who are looking to demean people the question wasn't: Is it right or wrong to do it (That's a lot of what I got here as answers), The question was: Does the sign carry power of law?
This thread has run its course, mods feel free to lock it!
Does a "no skateboarding" sign hold the letter of the law? If the owner saw you skateboarding on their property, which is normally open to the public, they would more than likely call the police. The cops would show up:
Cop: Do you have permission to skateboard here?
Skater: No, the sign clearly says "no skateboarding".
Can the cop issue you a trespassing citation, yes. Will the DA choose to prosecute you? Flip a coin, is it worth the risk?
Cop: Do you have permission to skateboard here?
Skater: No, the sign clearly says "no skateboarding".
Can the cop issue you a trespassing citation, yes. Will the DA choose to prosecute you? Flip a coin, is it worth the risk?
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- Thread Starter
- #73
You made my point exactly! Because guess what: There are skateboarding laws! So when you get the cops called on you for skateboarding, it is not because you are trespassing, it is because you are breaking skateboarding laws, which apply when "No Skateboarding" signs are posted. Those laws are in fact typically local ordinances. If trespassing could be used, why would cities and municipalities push for skateboarding laws? which in turn can be used for citations and arrest. if there were laws against shooting on people's properties were recreational activities are permitted, including hunting, then I d understand, but there aren't such laws. If there aren't, you can't stretch trespassing laws to accommodate that.
Which is precisely why I brought the topic up! In places where skateboarding laws do not exist what happens is the business owner will ask a person to leave. When refusal ensues, then the police are called. The refusal constitutes the trespassing, not the skateboarding, just like you are trespassing if I ask you to leave my house and you refuse. In places where skateboarding ordinances have been passed, the businesses call the cops immediately and the perps are arrested in violation of the skateboarding ordinance and not for trespassing.
And here it is for portland, because you need a law about that specific activity to make your sign carry power of law. Otherwise, we would all make up signs about ridiculous activities to be punished on our private properties.
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Clash, would you go on to a wheat farmers property without permission and do whatever you please? Why do you think that's any different than going on to a PRIVATE TREE FARM?
Yes, they are farms. The crop growing may take longer and the volume of land may be much larger than what other farmers deal with but there is no difference. Trees are a crop, the land they grow on has to be cared for just like any other farmland.
I work for a large timber company, we do let hunters on our property. We also contract with local law enforcement to patrol in addition to private security patrols.
If you think violating someone else's property rights is okay please give me your address, I'd like to bring some buddies to your place to do whatever we please, whenever we please.
You should be grateful most of the timberland owners on the west coast do let the public access their property in some ways. If you lived in the South or East Coast you would be begging for the right to pay an annual lease for the right to hunt or shoot on their land.
Yes, they are farms. The crop growing may take longer and the volume of land may be much larger than what other farmers deal with but there is no difference. Trees are a crop, the land they grow on has to be cared for just like any other farmland.
I work for a large timber company, we do let hunters on our property. We also contract with local law enforcement to patrol in addition to private security patrols.
If you think violating someone else's property rights is okay please give me your address, I'd like to bring some buddies to your place to do whatever we please, whenever we please.
You should be grateful most of the timberland owners on the west coast do let the public access their property in some ways. If you lived in the South or East Coast you would be begging for the right to pay an annual lease for the right to hunt or shoot on their land.
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Yeah what the heck after reading all 4 pages of Clash against The World I thought I'd put in my .02 worth. That's 2 cents worth for folks that may or may not read the English language too well.
Now I am no rocket surgeon but I've done right well considering: I played the hand the good Lord dealt me and this is what I got to show for it after a wee bit more than 6 decades.
1) Got a roof over my head. It ain't the Shangri-La but one sure would think so if they knew what I paid for my twice a year due property taxes. Plenty enough to get me a sweet Daniel Defense AR 4 magazines one of those kinda fancy Holo sights or maybe a laser thru some kind of scope. Plus one of those high speed low drag slings the operators use. (All those years of shooting and never once have I owned a scoped gun.) But I've found with the onset of Oldguyitis the peepers are heading south for me too. Basically I need optics that will work with my tired old eyes.
2) Got my truck.
3) Got my stuff.
4) Got my carry guns. Most of the others were lost in a tragic accident at sea. Luckily for me I did not have my camping stuff with me at the time.
So yeah Clash send me your address too and I could direct 30 or 40 thousand non English speaking out of towners down your way. Could be that 40 to 50 percent of them have rap sheets too but I don't know why that would worry you. It is said they're all just looking to raise their families in a new and different land.
We usedta get a few trespassers at my old job before I retired. When we were lucky they only would cut our fences. Once I caught 3 guys stealing firewood. I told them I was going down to the bottom and would be about 30 minutes. Half an hour later they were long gone and barely left a mess. They were pretty slick. They had a high side stake truck. Looked like it would easily takes 3-4 cords. One stacking 1 splitting and 1 bucking. They took I figure 2 and a half to 3 cords that day. They also opened a nice hole in the canopy to let some sun on our road right there. These guys were trespassing too Clash. Perhaps I could send them down to your property? They just need a few truck loads of firewood.
Now I am no rocket surgeon but I've done right well considering: I played the hand the good Lord dealt me and this is what I got to show for it after a wee bit more than 6 decades.
1) Got a roof over my head. It ain't the Shangri-La but one sure would think so if they knew what I paid for my twice a year due property taxes. Plenty enough to get me a sweet Daniel Defense AR 4 magazines one of those kinda fancy Holo sights or maybe a laser thru some kind of scope. Plus one of those high speed low drag slings the operators use. (All those years of shooting and never once have I owned a scoped gun.) But I've found with the onset of Oldguyitis the peepers are heading south for me too. Basically I need optics that will work with my tired old eyes.
2) Got my truck.
3) Got my stuff.
4) Got my carry guns. Most of the others were lost in a tragic accident at sea. Luckily for me I did not have my camping stuff with me at the time.
So yeah Clash send me your address too and I could direct 30 or 40 thousand non English speaking out of towners down your way. Could be that 40 to 50 percent of them have rap sheets too but I don't know why that would worry you. It is said they're all just looking to raise their families in a new and different land.
We usedta get a few trespassers at my old job before I retired. When we were lucky they only would cut our fences. Once I caught 3 guys stealing firewood. I told them I was going down to the bottom and would be about 30 minutes. Half an hour later they were long gone and barely left a mess. They were pretty slick. They had a high side stake truck. Looked like it would easily takes 3-4 cords. One stacking 1 splitting and 1 bucking. They took I figure 2 and a half to 3 cords that day. They also opened a nice hole in the canopy to let some sun on our road right there. These guys were trespassing too Clash. Perhaps I could send them down to your property? They just need a few truck loads of firewood.
Just judging from the garbage left by all the slob shooters, yes there are people that still do it. Whether they are caught or not, I don't know. I do know there is a timber patrol guy that checks all the areas. During fire season, the state police are out there checking too,,,
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I'm not sure what the hub-bub is all about. I lived in St. Helens with property bordering on Weyerhaeuser land for 15 years. A few years back, I went down to the Weyerhaeuser office and asked if I could hunt. After a brief discussion, I got a paper saying that it's ok to "sight in" my rifle in the off season and hunt the season on their land. I've been doing it for quite some time now and have never had any issue. The only issue that I ever had, was about two years ago, I had some friends out on my "range" with targets and a few containers of Tannerite. It was late summer and a Columbia Co deputy came by. He was friendly and I was polite. I offered to show my permission papers (even though he didn't ask) and he joked a while and eventually drove on. I'm not sure what he was looking for, but we continued to "sight in" the rifles for another hour before we called it a day.
The hub-bub is about slob shooters trashing the place and ruining it for the rest of us. dragging their TV's and other crap out to the woods, shooting it up and leaving it.
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