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Any updates on OMMP card holders and the right to purchase?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Shaolo, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. Shaolo

    Shaolo USA Active Member

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    I did a search and the most up to date thread I found was back in March. Does anyone know of any pending cases regarding this matter?

    I'm debating getting a card (I have legit reasons) but not if I will forever be limited to purchasing second hand goods. As far as I can tell, that's still the case.
     
  2. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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  3. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Haven't heard of any cases where someone has been denied purchase because of possession of an OMMP. But, as others have mentioned, policies can change.
     
  4. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    it has gone to court in WA but i havnt heard of anything coming up in OR about it. WA made it a point to allow it after the case ended but thats not oregon. there is a fair chance rec use will be legal by dec so if its not that big of a deal for you, just wait until then and keep your Dr in the loop. well for the medical part anyway, woudnt want to find out the Dr is a bloomberg fan the wrong way.
     
  5. Hawaiian

    Hawaiian Tigard Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The Oregon Supreme Court already ruled against Jackson and Washington counties for denying a CHL to a medical marijuana card holder. The US Supreme court declined to hear an appeal of those cases so the OR SC ruling stands.

    However BATFE has taken the position that under federal law medical marijuana is a controlled substance and a medical marijuana card holder is prohibited from purchasing a firearm or ammunition. BATFE requires that medical marijuana users answer 'yes' to the question 11.e on ATF form 4473.

    So, if you already owed a firearm prior to obtaining a medical marijuana card, you can secure a CHL. If not, you can not legally purchase a firearm to carry with your CHL.
     
  6. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    One more time - unless you are going to make a big deal out of it, or decide you have the time and money to make yourself a test case, there is little risk in Oregon. Realistically, if you have some issue where you think that the feds are investigating you, then you have much bigger problems.
     
  7. pdx210

    pdx210 Clackamas Active Member

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    Fed’s don’t want to touch this hot potato.

    It has already played out remember back in 2010 when Attorney General Eric Holder with Colorado the feds said they would block the state’s legal pot sales. Colorado prepared to take the case before the supreme court and suddenly the feds changed their tune. The feds are not really interested in pursuing and here’s why!


    The constitution is the supreme law of the land, All LAWS from local to federal must fall in line with our constitution to be valid. We all know about the 2nd but this is really a 10th amendment issue. The 10th limits all fed power to only those authorized in the constitution and any powers not authorized to the fed are exclusively reserved for states & citizens.

    "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people"


    This is a really big problem for the feds……nothing in the constitution grants fed power over any drugs, drug sales or firearms sales within a state and a plethora of other things. The “power” the feds use in these is via the “interstate commerce clause” …the power to regulate commerce between the states ……the little yellow form you fill out when you buy a gun is actually a tax form, often through bribery of states to enact laws, regulation and a degree of subservience to the feds with fed funds(money), and by stretching and ignoring their limited powers.


    Imagine what happens if the Supreme Court affirms states’ rights via the 10th amendment. Setting a precedent for the plethora of fed agencies that violate the limits of their authority per the 10th ….


    EPA

    DEA

    USDA

    FBI

    CDC

    USFS

    HUD
     
    IronMonster and ZA_Survivalist like this.
  8. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    That sure didn't stop ObamaCare from steamrolling in, did it? (Just one example, not even touching on the NFA & GCA legislation)
     
  9. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    SO I am curious how long after you stop using Pot can you then answer "NO" on the 4473 question?

    I mean if you stopped using pot last night is that good enough? or does it have to be some other unknown length of time?

    I have never heard the answer for this. Since pot is not addictive you can stop using it any time you want.
     
  10. pdx210

    pdx210 Clackamas Active Member

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    Form 4473

    Someone may say that you are breaking federal law but as I have pointed out above federal laws no real legal jurisdiction on this issue with-in a state.

    Additionally
    question F. asked if you have been found mentally defective
    H. askes if you have any restraining orders.
    I. asks if you have any misdemeanor convictions for domestic violence
    These are all state and county judgments not federal ones, in essence the feds are asking if you are in compliance with your state laws.

    As for question E on form 4473 it asked if you are "Unlawful user of , or addicted to, Marijuana.."
    If you have a lawfully issued OMM card you are a lawful user of marijuana NOT an unlawful user and you should mark no in the box.
     
  11. pdx210

    pdx210 Clackamas Active Member

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    Do you remember when he was first pitching healthcare and he called it a "mandate" for health care on citizens. There was a few libertarians and tea party people that were planing on a supreme court challenge because the feds have no constitutional power to "mandate" citizens buy health care. The administration quickly changed it from a "mandate" to a tax ...they have the constitutional power to tax.


    It's all in the wording and perception and unfortunately we have a government that poorly recognizes the limits of it's power and authority which is why we had Heller Vs. DC.
    Government had to be taken to task Via the supreme court because left to their own they will stretch their power and authority they lawfully don't have.
     
  12. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    It is a Federal form (4473) and if you answer no and you use MJ, then it is perjury, as it is still unlawful under federal Law. The 4473 is NOT a state form. That is just how it is. Until someone determines that the State can Overrule Federal Law on Drug laws, use your best judgment, not your best guess judgment.
    Be careful or it could cost you your 2nd Amendment right. One of those topics you had better be 100% correct on. Get a true legal opinion.

    ,
     
    Morpheus likes this.
  13. pdx210

    pdx210 Clackamas Active Member

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    "That is just how it is. Until someone determines that the State can Overrule Federal Law on Drug laws, use your best judgment, not your best guess judgment."

    This is the root of the problem it's citizen and public official ignorance regarding the limited and specific power the feds have and where they have over stepped their power/authority.

    The feds don’t set drug rules/laws in states. In Oregon for example that’s done by the state pharmacy board and not the feds/ DEA as set by ORS, 475.035 (authority to control & schedule drugs)

    http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/475.035

    If you look at virtually every "fed law" states enforces there is a corresponding state law to authorize it!
    It's a felony to manufacture marijuana within 1,000 feet of a school and here's the corresponding ORS 475.858 authorizing it in the state...why would a state bother writing into it's laws a fed law?? The feds bribe states with billions of dollars in fed funds to pass state laws subservient to fed laws. I wan't to be clear what is actually happening here state are authorizing feds laws Via state statutes not through fed power.

    Lets change gears for a second and talk about another drug! The 18th amendment, prohibition of alcohol enacted January 17, 1920 in the USA...why did they bother passing a constitutional amendment to ban this drug Vs. just passing a fed law? Because the feds understood they have NO constitutional authority/ power to do this per the 10th or as defined in the constitution as a "fed power" they would have violated the limits of their authority/ power. The only way they could legally do this is an amendment authorizing such power!

    Lets be clear, There has been no amendment to authorize additional power/authority to the feds with drugs, the EPA, and a plethora of other fed agencies. Fed agencies like the ATF, the legislative branch or executive branch cannot pass bills into law, or agency policy to authorize additional power/authority to themselves this can only be done Via the amendment process.....PERIOD!
     
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  14. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I feel ya, and agree with what you're saying, but through the perverted "interpretation" of the interstate commerce clause the Fed has weaseled itself into almost every facet of citizens' lives. Remember the case were a farmer was convicted for growing wheat on his own property for his own use?

    That can be remedied through the amendment process, too.
     
    pdx210 likes this.
  15. pdx210

    pdx210 Clackamas Active Member

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    This is why I said the Fed’s don't want to touch this hot potato.

    Their bullying and flagrant disregard for limitations of power work best on an individual basis or with the help of state intoxicated buy fed money to pass laws of ignore fed limitations. If challenged on a constitutional basis in the supreme court none of this would fair well.

    I don't believe the feds have access to the OMMP database so proving a person is lying might be a task.
    Beyond that the only way to disallow a constitutional right is through trial by jury or adjudication process.
     
  16. pdx210

    pdx210 Clackamas Active Member

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    Per the link it says ...Under federal law there are no exceptions or medical uses for marijuana yet
    the federal government grows and supplies a small number of people with medical pot and has for decades.

    http://www.drugfree.org/join-together/four-americans-receive-marijuana-from-federal-government/
     
  17. pdx210

    pdx210 Clackamas Active Member

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    The BATF is charged with enforcing law not their opinion. IF the form is to relate to federal laws then question F, H, I, are invalid as they pertain to state adjudications not federal ones! E only asks of you are unlawfully using marijuana and in the state of oregon and washington you can legally use marijuana.

    The real issue is that nothing in the constitution authorizes power to the feds to regulate these within a state and the feds lack the power and are circumventing the constitution to restrict your constitutional rights (the 2nd in this case) without due process Via adjudication which is the only legal way your rights can be restricted!



    4473 doesn't ask if you are following fed law or state law it simply asks if you are unlawfully using a controlled substance.... oxycodone, morphine, codone are controlled substances If you are taking any of these as prescribed by a doctor in this state you are lawfully using you should also answer No to the question as well. The AFT is in the business of enforcing law not defining it.


    The only basis the feds use is they cannot distinguish between intrastate interstate commerce between drugs so therefore they ban all as per section 201 However , this alone does not authorize power to the feds this can only be done by amending the constitution as was the case with prohibition and the 18th amendment.
    http://legcounsel.house.gov/Comps/CSA.PDF



    .. No constitutional authority exists for these actions the 10th amendment restricts fed are working outside the constitution and their power and authority. It would take a state to challenge this on a supreme court level to overturn this. it almost came to this in colorado but the feds backed down.
     
  18. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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  19. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    You better use extreme caution on that one, it may apply to many agencies, but when have you ever seen the ATF be intimidated in destroying anyone or any business over any reason that they see fit.
    To put a drug mark on someone's record won't even make them hiccup. Its what they do.
    Good luck in that hopeful thinking about the Gov. Just remember who you deal with.... with the ATF.
    Good sense went by the wayside back in 1934 there.
    Right or wrong you may just need about 2 mil to be right.... legally that is.
    It is an expensive fight if you want to test the theory.
    Common sense says stay off the stuff.

    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
    IronMonster likes this.
  20. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    You can twist and squirm about it and use your own justification, and you may be right on some issues. the simple one is, it is a federal law that outlaws the use of MJ, and it is a federal agency that asks the question on a federal form.
    I hope you get to argue with them, as it may relieve many of going through the agony that you sill surely go through unless they change the wording or change the federal law.

    My advice stays the same.... Don't mess with them, and you can change the word "mess" to one that would have come up bubblegum LOL.
    Good luck to you. We'll all be watching the papers :)

    .