Oregon Antifa Wins, Self Defense Loses in Oregon Appeals Court

bbbass

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If that's your interpretation of the ORS, that's totally fine with me friend. Unfortunately the court didn't see it this way with Mr. Strickland's actions.
And THAT'S why we all be here yakkin about it. ;):D

It boils down to:
Members that think the judges are wrong
Members that think the judges got it right
Members that think Strickland committed a crime
Members that think Strickland acted in justifiable self defense

Are our opinions important to anybody but us?
Will our opinions make any diff?

But this is a discussion site (not as some believe, an ad site ;)) and we be discussin!!!
 

bbbass

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BTW, I dislike it when judges "interpret" the law. Or as I wrote before, the laws are written so vaguely as to require or allow interpretation.

In my book, the law says what it says, and the only requirement of the judge/jury is to interpret the actions of the defendant as shown by evidence, not conjecture, opinion, etc, as being consistent, inconsistent, or against, the law. IMO There's way too much ideology going into the courtrooms today. Same with tort law.... grrrrrrrh. We need to go back to attorney ads being illegal on TV.
 
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Does WA have a duty to retreat? AFAIK, Oregon doesn't.
I would say OR does at minimum have an unwritten duty to retreat based on the outcome of this case. Whether that is written into the law or not -- the guy was still convicted and now one level of the appellate process affirmed that. I'm not sure about what is written in WA law, but I suspect anything short of being tackled from behind while you are running away, is going to carry significant risk of a similar legal outcome, at least along the I-5 corridor. Whether that's the correct outcome is a different question, but the lesson I take from this is to run until you can't.
 
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And THAT'S why we all be here yakkin about it. ;):D

It boils down to:
Members that think the judges are wrong
Members that think the judges got it right
Members that think Strickland committed a crime
Members that think Strickland acted in justifiable self defense

Are our opinions important to anybody but us?
Will our opinions make any diff?

But this is a discussion site (not as some believe, an ad site ;)) and we be discussin!!!
You forgot members who think the situation is grey, at least when viewed from outside the circumstance, and who note that it resulted in conviction and wish to use that to inform their decisions on when to pull a gun.

I think you mentioned (if not you someone else) that the police officer testified that if you pull a gun and don't shoot, that's a problem (or something to that effect) and that officer's opinion was lousy. I've heard that opinion before too though and I suspect the reason is that when these things get to court, the not-shooting part calls into question whether the gun had to be drawn at all.

The unintended consequence of the OR Appeals Court decision, is that it makes shootings more likely. Had Stricklan shot that dude who was menacing him from about 18" away, I feel he would have had a better chance in court because to me, that looked very threatening. But the fact that Strickland was able to retreat unscathed reinforces the "run" choice. Anyway, the lesson I'm taking from OR's judges, if you do draw rather than retreat, do so when the threat is as near as possible and then draw and instantly shoot -- none of these Drejka-like pauses or retreating with a pointed gun.

Whether that's the right tactical choice is a different question of course.
 
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BTW, I dislike it when judges "interpret" the law. Or as I wrote before, the laws are written so vaguely as to require or allow interpretation.
...
And the job of the lower courts is to apply the law as it is written, not to interpret it for the benefit of judicial activism...
Whatever we may wish or believe ought to be the case, a fact of life is that decisions are commonly made by a judge or panel figuring out the desired outcome and backporting the law into supporting that outcome. I think that is an important, but totally unwritten, lesson from the Strickland decision.
 
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The unintended consequence of the OR Appeals Court decision, is that it makes shootings more likely. Had Stricklan shot that dude who was menacing him from about 18" away, I feel he would have had a better chance in court because to me, that looked very threatening. But the fact that Strickland was able to retreat unscathed reinforces the "run" choice. Anyway, the lesson I'm taking from OR's judges, if you do draw rather than retreat, do so when the threat is as near as possible and then draw and instantly shoot -- none of these Drejka-like pauses or retreating with a pointed gun.

Whether that's the right tactical choice is a different question of course.
Agree... or at least you have to be much deeper in hot water before going for your weapon. Someone is going to be injured one way or another.
 

Wombat of Doom

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You're right, it is subjective. Unfortunately, in a court of law, a defendants actions are judged objectively. From the video that I'm seeing, there is a balding white male with a black shirt and a black bag that has his hands up, in front of him. He has his hands up in front of himself, showing Mr. Strickland his palms and wasn't acting in an aggressive manner whatsoever. He had this stance before Mr. Strickland drew his firearm. He had this stance after Mr. Strickland drew his firearm and yet, Mr. Strickland pointed his firearm at this guy. I'm willing to bet that this guy was one of the counts of Unlawful Use of a Weapon and possibly others.

Mr. Strickland may have believed that his safety was at risk, but that doesn't give him carte blanche to point his firearm at anyone in his vicinity.

View attachment 680691
No. The opinions of the judge are subjective and based on subjective interpretations. Humans are not objective. And the law here is subjective. Now, is that the individual the gun is pointing at? Because to me it looks like the gun would be to the right of mr hands up. Frankly, a mob executing flanking maneuvers is an objective threat. It appears to me that is what happened. (Note, I do not claim objectivity here about Michael Strickland's situation. )

There seems to be a serious issue here in how some are misusing the word objective.
 

Wombat of Doom

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I would say OR does at minimum have an unwritten duty to retreat based on the outcome of this case. Whether that is written into the law or not -- the guy was still convicted and now one level of the appellate process affirmed that. I'm not sure about what is written in WA law, but I suspect anything short of being tackled from behind while you are running away, is going to carry significant risk of a similar legal outcome, at least along the I-5 corridor. Whether that's the correct outcome is a different question, but the lesson I take from this is to run until you can't.
An unwritten law is not a law.
 

BPOR11

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I'm not an attorney and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn express last night, but I do know that a good portion of the law is based on, "what would a reasonable person do." It was reported that Mr. Strickland had one mag in his firearm and 5 spare mags on his person when this event took place. How many of us concealed carry folks leave our houses everyday with 6 loaded mags on our person? Me: never. Do you have a right to do so? Absolutely! Does it bode well in the event that you have to draw your firearm? Maybe not.

I don't know Mr. Strickland and I don't know the events that transpired that day that lead to him drawing his firearm, so I will reserve judgement. But, if you're ever getting ready to go to a, "community event," and you think you should bring 5 spare mags, you might be better off staying at home.


Given he has the balls to go into the snakepit and bring back information for us, I personally would reconsider if five extra magazines was enough.
 
I guess that's one of the pieces I don't understand. What information did he get from this event that no one knew?

Hopefully for him it was worth it.
Well, I was going to posit that the information he retrieved from the event that no one knew was that justice in Portland is slanted heavily to the left.

But I guess we all knew that already, so I'm with you on this...
 
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If so, then you must believe that Antifa thugs are even bigger turds... but I think I missed it if you said so.
You didn't miss what I didn't say. I didn't think it was a binary choice. If I think Antifa are actually fascist thugs does that make Strickland right? Does it have to be one or the other? Yes I think Antifa are even bigger thugs than Strickland. I also think Strickland was using reasonable force, his 5 magazines really tipped the balance to unreasonable though and it something everyone here should consider for the aftermath of a shooting.

I would say OR does at minimum have an unwritten duty to retreat based on the outcome of this case.....
There is no duty to retreat in Oregon, nor is there a stand your ground defense or a Castle Doctrine. Arson of an inhabited structure is the only property crime you can use deadly force on, by ORS.
 
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"Whether that's the correct outcome is a different question, but the lesson I take from this is to run until you can't."
I am unable to run or engage in hand to hand combat, or back up without stumbling. Thus, I am always nice to people and avoid going places like that.
I would dearly LOVE to wear a MAGA hat to give the finger to the Twit Brigade, but I don't want to do anything that looks like I provoked the situation, so I don't.
I try to avoid going any place I can't take my Smurf (little blue friend). Some places I have to go like the dr.
Carrying a gun is like riding motorcycle - Never provoke a confrontation because you can't win.
 
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I can’t find any grounds for appeal listed anywhere. It seems like he just didn’t like the verdict but was there wrongdoing?
His appeal grounds looked weak just like his defense arguments because the stuff Strickland has said that happened he never really argued in court.

I’ve looked at some of his videos. He doesn’t appear to be a journalist but rather an agitator and I remember reading that evidence presented in court showed Michael Strickland was visiting people’s homes at night to threaten and harass them and then showed up at their event. This isn’t journalism, this is being an asshat.

There's no doubt that Portland is a libtard utopia but Michael Strickland isn’t a journalist and journalists don’t pack a backpack filled with ammo and visit people’s homes at night and expect to be welcomed to the left's protests with open arms weeks later.
 

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