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answering the door in Arizona

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Just Jim, May 13, 2011.

  1. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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  2. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    I think their swat team needs some firearms training, 5 guys, 71 rounds, in a hallway? If you cant clear a house in 15 min. to allow the medical team in with that many guys you need a new team. I'd be curious to the outcome in court if they dont settle first.
     
  3. Sasquatchvnv

    Sasquatchvnv Port Orchard Active Member

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  4. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    I see alot of cops being shot if not identifying themselves when breaking down doors. Sad thing is I also see alot of the same results as in Arizona incident with the homeowner defending their home and being shot for trying.
     
  5. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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  6. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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  7. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    If you read the article it is easy to see why the Deputys refused to allow treatment, the victim's wife "Told them to treat her husband" first important thing I learned living in AZ is-- Never tell law enforcement to do anything you might want done. She should have phoned 911 herself if she wanted medical care for her husband.
     
  8. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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  9. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    Without all the info its hard to really know what to think but it does look like inaccurate investigations into his ties to the drug investigation as well as a coverup/plant of evidence.
     
  10. deadmeat08

    deadmeat08 SE PDX Member

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    This whole scenario is terrifying!
    If an officer breaks into your home without identifying and you shoot first, not knowing who or why they are there, then you're attacking the police and they will shoot you. And if you've only got your gun out and are trying to identify the intruder, then you're an armed suspect and they'll shoot you.
    Not good...

    The first article explains that she did call 911 herself, but that the deputies would not let the paramedics into the scene.
     
  11. glock.40

    glock.40 Orygun Active Member

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    But this wasn't in Indiana. :paranoid:
     
  12. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    I was replying to another post referencing this article: Court: No right to resist illegal cop entry into home. Learn to read.

    In any case, I'm sure this Arizona shooting will be rubber-stamped as justified, just like every other cop murder of a civilian.
     
  13. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    I'd say the shooting sounds like an expected out come for someone found crouching down holding a firearm at the police executing the search warrant.

    As for the delay in treatment I think that needs to be judged on whether or not the police were then in control of the house or if they retreated and were outside of the home with the danger in the home unsure.

    If they were inside the home and in control of the situation then the delay was negligent. If they were outside the home in a defensive position the caution was warranted. If I had been a EMT and asked to go into an unsecured home I would have declined just as anyone would regardless of if the police allowed it.

    The article doesn't speak of who was in control of the house and when so judgement is best left until more facts arrive.
     
  14. deadmeat08

    deadmeat08 SE PDX Member

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    If they had bothered to identify themselves before breaking down the door, I bet he would have been a little more careful about pointing that weapon at them.
     
  15. Sasquatchvnv

    Sasquatchvnv Port Orchard Active Member

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    Hard sayin', not knowin'.... But you are left to wonder if the old maxim "make sure there is only one side of the story" might have been a consideration.

    And while we're at it... If you want my cooperation, knock on my door like a civilized human being and present your warrant, or face the possibility that you might get blown right back out the door if I don't know who you are or why you're kicking my door in. Criminals can and do yell "police" when breaking in. Act like an animal, and you shouldn't be surpised at being viewed and treated like one.

    This whole SWAT mentality for every situation will make sure a lot of people die on both sides of the equation during the troubles I think are coming. I guess when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail...
     
    USMC1911, MikeSettles, MikeE and 3 others like this.
  16. glock.40

    glock.40 Orygun Active Member

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    I'll work on that whole reading thing. Thanks! I didn't know I couldn't do that.
     
  17. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    Did you read somewhere that they didn't?
     
  18. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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  19. Browning55

    Browning55 Seattle-Everett Area Active Member

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    The Indiana decision is completely ridiculous. It's entering a private residence illegally or "for no reason" that is against public policy.

    It's becoming more apparent that police conduct needs to be looked at. I'm normally very sympathetic to police but the advent of camera phones has shown way too many incidents across the country - including Seattle - where the police report one version and the photos or videos show something entirely different. Have to get back "To Protect And To Serve" instead of lord over, mistreat and intimidate.
     
  20. RB87

    RB87 Oregon Active Member

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    Some interesting reading regarding police tactics, specifically the last 4 blog posts and the responses:

    Massad Ayoob

    The Indiana ruling just boggles my mind. From what I've read, it wasn't as if there was a decent argument for exigent circumstances. On top of that it reads like a case of hot heads losing control of their egos on all sides during the incident.
     
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