(another) SBR thread

Messages
5,076
Reactions
7,699
Without writing a book on the subject you can form a trust , which is a legal entity much like if a corporation had sex with a will and popped out another legal entity that could own things like silencers and sbr's. Then you make yourself trustee of the trust so that you have full use rights to everything the trust owns. It was a great way to get around the CLEO signature bit for years. Trusts dont have fingerprints or pictures etc. Just fill out the forms, send it in and you got approved. There has been a recent reinterpretation of the rules recently and it will become a little more difficult. It was a great scam while it lasted.
 

PDXSparky

Messages
2,664
Reactions
1,354
Slight amendment to this...
A Caliber must be engraved as well. If you have a lower with "Multi" the firearm needs to have a caliber somewhere on it. Most barrels are engraved with the caliber so you may not need to even worry about it.
True. Occasionally people SBR something other than an AR lower. My IMI Uzi has 3 calibers engraved, so I'd have to pick one to put on the Form 1.
 
Messages
157
Reactions
10
I recall hearing from previous ATF rulings that you only had to engrave an SBR if you planned on selling it, anyone know if this is true? If I wanted to SBR my Action Arms UZI I wouldn't want to ruin the value by engraving my name on it :eek:
You're confusing this with 80% lower builds. You must engrave with the name placed on the ATF Form.
 

PDXSparky

Messages
2,664
Reactions
1,354
where and how does one get the form(s) for this? Is this form the same as for suppressors? Can more then one "transaction" be done on this form? Forgive me, This is new territory for me. Also, I am told that for one suppressor the cost is $200:00 and for multi suppressors done with in one year it is $500:00 no matter how many are done, Is this correct? How much does the SBR part of this process cost?
Form 1 can be found at https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-forms You want ATF 5320.1 if you want to "make" a SBR, SBS, or suppressor.

In Portland it's Bye Engraving. They do a lot of them and you can watch while they do the work.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Bye doesn't have a FFL, so you actually need to stay there while they engrave a firearm.

Can I use an ampersand in a trust name:

K&H Arms Trust
City, Washington

Or would I have to spell out and? ...details...
You have to engrave exactly as it is titled on the trust. The only thing that can be abbreviated is the state name using what the USPS uses.

That I don't need, I struggle to keep my self in ammo as it is. Thats all I need, 30 rounds gone in 5 seconds. I would need deep pockets to afford a full-auto habit. :D
Well, you don't do a mag dump every time you shoot. When I go to shoot, I load my mags before I leave the house and that limits how much ammo I go thru. Even then, I'm always looking for a deal on 9mm and buy it by the case.

I recall hearing from previous ATF rulings that you only had to engrave an SBR if you planned on selling it, anyone know if this is true? If I wanted to SBR my Action Arms UZI I wouldn't want to ruin the value by engraving my name on it :eek:
Pretty sure that when you Form 1 a SBR, you have to engrave it no matter what. If you want to SBR your IMI Uzi, then engrave the 10" barrel you'll buy. That's how most Uzi owners do it. No way would I engrave, or cut, the original barrel with the matching serial number.

Off topic... I've been hearing a lot about trusts on this Forum... what is up with trusts and firearms?
Trusts, like corporations, are "legal entities" and thus can own stuff, like class 3 toys. The 2 main reasons people use trusts as a vehicle to own NFA items are (1) they don't require CLEO sign off like individuals need and (2) others on the trust as trustees can be in possession of the NFA items without you needing to be present. Individuals need to be "in control" of the items. That means you have to be present if you want to share.

The upcoming rule change (July 13) will eliminate the CLEO sign off requirement and will require all the people listed on the trust to have prints, photos, and background checks just like individuals have to do now.
 

jbett98

Messages
10,749
Reactions
19,969
I didn't get denied, I just didn't know what length to put on the form 1 until I had actually built the SBR, so I guessed how short it would be with the components I was going to order, not how long it could be.
If you think about it, you're building a short barreled firearm, wouldn't the ATF require the minimum length it could be, not the longest.
 
Messages
5,076
Reactions
7,699
Might want to check and see if they actually have an FFL. Many engraving shops don't know that they need to have one if they do firearms engraving without the owner present. If they don't and there is a problem you could be out your receiver for quite a long time especially if its an NFA weapon. Unless I knew for sure a shop had an FFL I wouldnt let them keep anything without me present.
 
Messages
2,540
Reactions
1,540
For comparison, here are my two AR-15 SBR's. The top one was laser-engraved by Laserman; the bottom was mechanically engraved at BYE Engraving. The BYE lower has been treated with aluminum black (with uneven results). BYE can only go down to 1/8", while Laserman can go so small that you need a magnifying glass to see it (1/16" is the minimum). BYE meets a certain minimum standard, but if I ever need anything engraved again I'll be going back to Laserman.

IMG_20160425_171710_zpsfofpgjgc.jpg
 
Messages
5,076
Reactions
7,699
Looking at those I'm glad mine are in the trigger guard and mag well. If I didnt point them ou tto you you'd spend a long time looking. If I had either one of those engravers next door I'd still send mine to Veritas machine.
 
Messages
96
Reactions
15
Might want to check and see if they actually have an FFL. Many engraving shops don't know that they need to have one if they do firearms engraving without the owner present. If they don't and there is a problem you could be out your receiver for quite a long time especially if its an NFA weapon. Unless I knew for sure a shop had an FFL I wouldnt let them keep anything without me present.
I've never heard of a company needing an FFL to be able to hold onto a customer's firearm overnight. You might be thinking you can't leave an NFA item with a shop without an FFL. But if you take your firearm to them before you SBR it, I don't think there would be a problem. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

Cerberus Training Group - Run the Gun Rifle
Cerberus Training Group
47 Cattle Dr, Goldendale, WA 98620, USA
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Gun Show
Battleground Community Center
912 E Main St, Battle Ground, WA 98604, USA
Albany Rifle & Pistol Club (ARPC) Gun Show
Linn County Expo Center
3700 Knox Butte Rd E, Albany, OR 97322, USA

LATEST RESOURCE REVIEWS

  • 36 Pit
    4.00 star(s)
    Went here this morning. This was my first time shooting on public land in Oregon. The guys from Trash No Land were there as well as other...
  • HighLine Firearms
    5.00 star(s)
    Good prices, interesting items
    I like taking a drive through farm country to this spot... nice selection.
    • kbf64
  • HighLine Firearms
    5.00 star(s)
    Good Friday!
    Had a great first time visit that included a transfer, a special order, and some trading. Can't wait to come back! Also I realized after I got...
  • HighLine Firearms
    5.00 star(s)
    Upstanding Vendor!
    Have worked with this business twice and both times were outstanding! Will definitely keep going to him when I'm up in that area! Shoot, will...
  • Oregon Arms & Ammunition
    5.00 star(s)
    Hellcat OSP
    I almost put "Limited "Covid induced" inventory" as a Con, but thought that wouldn't really be fair to them! The aftermath of Covid has depleted...
Top Bottom