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Another overlooked defender of the 2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by U201491, Oct 4, 2013.

  1. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    ATCclears, oknow, BoonDocks36 and 3 others like this.
  2. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Nice, as someone who served in the Marine Corps,, I will check them out! Thanks
     
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  3. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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  4. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    And I seem to recall that Oathkeepers are now on the list (since the Bush admin) of "have you ever been or are you now a member of" organizations.

    Mostly because they call on sworn members of the military to refuse orders that in their sole judgement are "unconstitutional."

    It's ALREADY OK to refuse an order that you think is a crime. This isn't news, it's been the case for decades.

    Is it OK to disarm Americans in case of a rebellion? THE U.S. Constitution SPECIFICALLY SAYS "YES." but the Oathkeepers say "no."

    I trust the kids in the military to mostly do the right thing in case TSHTF. I don't think they need an organization that openly promotes disobedience of lawful orders in order for that to happen.

    I was IN the military. I get it. I also get command's serious case of the *** when confronted with an organization actively seeking to undermine their lawful authority. Which is exactly what Oathkeepers does, intentionally or not. It's like the jackass who refused to deploy to Kosovo because of the color of helmet. WHAT PART OF LAWFUL ORDER do you not understand? He was court-martialed and convicted for failure of movement.

    If they'd kept their purview to LE, I'd still be on their side. But from a command point of view within the military, I'd label them a "No-Go" organization too. It just leaves too damn much up to 17 and 19 year-old kids with no clue, a lot of BAD information and an active incentive to disobey orders.

    Anyone who's been in the military should be able to grasp this.

    If there was actually ever an extra-legal attempt to disarm Americans I think most soldiers would refuse to obey. I absolutely believe they'd refuse orders to fire on their fellow Americans for protesting such an attempt.

    Since either of those scenarios seems remote in the extreme, ESPECIALLY after Katrina and the sh*tstorm that caused, I fail to see the point of Oathkeepers and the military. Oathkeepers and LE makes sense. Those are the people ACTUALLY violating rights. Oathkeepers in the military seems silly and counter to goo military discipline.
     
  5. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with Mr Bill on this one.
     
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  6. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

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    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God. "

    Took it twice, don't remember ever being released from it.
     
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  7. chariot13

    chariot13 Near Eugene/Springfield Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, the Oathkeepers take their stance because they already know many of their members (police & military) obey their orders whether lawful or not, every single day. They're just there to be a voice of reluctance to the mindless drone's that most of the police and military are today (including many of its own members in Oathkeepers). Police and military follow orders on a grand scale, disobedience even when obviously justified is rare. To counter such a machine, with just one person a year managing to slip some freedom past their superiors for a fellow American, but otherwise always following their orders that year, is a small win. Every little bit of disobedience that goes un noticed, or covers for your fellow Americans in some way & doesn't allow the machine to ruin the future for an American, is worth it. We make computers that must work within set parameters with zero freedom to do otherwise, we are not computers.
     
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  8. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    That's funny, I don't think our President and Congress people were ever released from that oath either.....to bad they forget the oath they took on a daily basis. Maybe some court marshals are in order, then a firing squad?
     
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  9. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Not to jump on every conspiracy bandwagon that rolls down my block, but, there is a strong rumor going around that this admin has a litmus test for officers in the military whereby they have to answer the question:paranoid:. If so ordered would you fire or order your troops to fire on American citizens ? I think this might be one of the underlying reasons we are seeing so many commanders and flag officers sacked. say No, and now your ability to be an "effective" commander will be called in to question. I think the drunkeness or poking subordinates in some cases may be just the "official" reason. I am going to ask a Lt. Col friend of mine when she gets back from the sandbox.

    Brutus out
     
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  10. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim West of Oly Springer Slayer 2016 Volunteer

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    Makes you wonder who is going to be "friend or foe" after the SHTF!!!
     
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  11. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    That will be the question....I think the answer is foe is the peoples coming to disarm you.


    Brutus out
     
  12. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I think the soldiers that have been in for a while understand the dynamics of military life better and thus, realize the big picture....most of those guys are safe IMO. On the other hand, there are a lot of the younger guys who just wanted to come over and play around like it was a video game. Those guys scared the crap out of me and still do.....
     
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  13. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with much of the oath keepers philosophy.... I remember my oaths, don't need to be reminded of them by an overt organization and be put on another list. As a former spook, well let's just say the shade is still nice and cool.

    Brutus out
     
  14. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Have you noticed how many senior officers, and generals he has replaced ?
     
  15. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    As a matter of fact I have. Fighter pilots, ship drivers, generals, admirals, it is actually quite mind boggling. Granted, many of the reports I have read goodly amount of these guys, and rarely, gals probably earned their dismissal with bone headed decisions...but might these decisions come to light only after admiral smith said, heck no, I won't launch TLams against US citizens. So the FBI or some other alphabet investigators do some deep carpet cleaning and find out old Smith was tipping the illegal immigrant maid with more than greenbacks.
    It's not like ruining someone's reputation isn't the easiest way to justify sacking them, right?

    Brutus out
     
  16. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    It really doesnt matter. The fact you are on here is enough for this administration to put you at the top of the lists anyway. Avoiding controversy doesn't help. The only way to do that is throw the phones, computers and all tech eqpt. Into the pond and go off the grid.
    I just want my country back and elected people to actually represent and stop subverting the Constitution, and that cant be done from behind the bushes.

    I thought this was kind of impressive.

    "What We Are Not “written by Capt. Gregory Gooch (Ret.) in March, 2009″ who was is now a retired member of the Oath Keepers National Board.

    We are Not advocating or promoting the overthrow of any government whether local, state or national. We want our governments to return to

    Republic which

    Constitutional

    the

    the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution defined and instituted.

    We are Not advocating or promoting violence towards any organization, group or person. We are determined to Keep our Oath to support and defend the Constitution.

    We are not advocating or promoting the removal of any person from his or her elected office. We want all elected persons to live up to their Oath to “support and defend

    Constitution” as it is written or to leave of their own volition.

    We are not advocating or promoting that anyone in the Judicial Branch be removed or replaced. We want the Justices in the Judicial Branch to follow the Constitution as written without interpretation.

    We are not advocating or promoting any particular form of government other than the Constitutional Republic which the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution defined and instituted.

    We are not advocating or promoting the rewriting of the Constitution nor are we asking for an Amendment thereto. We are insisting on

    Constitution being Enforced as it is written.

    We are Not advocating or promoting any act or acts of aggression against any organization or person for any reason including, but not limited to;

    origin,

    national

    religion,

    race,

    political affiliation, gender or sexual orientation.

    We hope for a return to

    free

    Republic

    Constitutional

    fear and hatred. We hate

    tyranny.

    We are Oath Sworn Americans who want the Constitution returned to its legal and rightful place, intact, as the ultimate Law of the Land."

    Why do you fear them with that as their standard as long as they abide by it.
     
  17. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Its one reason the bulk of the military is in the 18 to 20 range. They will blindly follow orders.
    They can be manipulated easily to fire on citizens. They wont wake up until it is their parents and grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles they are told to draw a bead on.
     
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  18. mosinguy1

    mosinguy1 out by the ocean Active Member

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    I too took that oath, my Dad is the officer who gave it to me and swore me into the military. I know it is in me no matter what. Our oldest boy just completed boot camp and is in AIT now, thankfully he is not one of the drone video fools. He had some kids like that in basic and they worried him, he says they are dim wits who would blindly follow orders.

    I hope the upper officers who passed this litmus were lieing thru their teeth to save their hinnies. Unlike soma admirals and a certain Gen. P

    I got out of LE work because I DID NOT like what I was seeing and hearing. Yes there are still a few and I mean a few on the grand scale of things, GOOD LE's. The majority of the newbies came out of training as JACKBOOT THUGS, not the kind of LE's we need, or want.
     
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  19. cookie

    cookie THE SOCIALIST STATE OF KALI - FORNIA Well-Known Member

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    This is the problem ,,,U.S. Army Ad: An Army of Ignorance - YouTube
     
  20. BoonDocks36

    BoonDocks36 Oregon, in the boondocks Christian. Conservative. Male.

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    I have "heard" read, on ~another~ Forum, that Enlisted Personal, will not be sent to where they live, in fact, I have read that there could even be a diabolical level, wherein, they would send "racially" oriented to areas that are ~not~ The same as them, to not only provide assurance that E/P will not be ordered to fire upon mom, dad, cousin, aunt , uncle.... But rather, upon people they might have ~issues~ with!!!

    I can not, obviously proove out that, it is premise only... But imagine, sending as an example from Prisons, Aryan Nation members, to "keep order" in a "New Black Panther" area... Yeah, that would work great, for the destruction of America....

    Which is When Oath Keepers would be going into INACTION, not supporting orders to seize weapons, shoot citizens, etc.

    Above, I believe I read the question of "how to tell" good guys from bad gus...

    Under the concepts above, My Opinion would be, multiple cars, or military vehicles coming downyour driveway.... They would not be there to sell raffle tickets for the Old Folks Home being built !!!!! :D

    philip
    In the BoonDocks....
     
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