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The article is right on one thing: the overwhelming majority of people who fail in their attempt to commit suicide do not go on to try again and the majority of attempts by way of gun are lethal.

Getting a gun out of a suicidal person's hands is a worthwhile problem to solve.

But, I'm failing to see why they think the Gov offering a penny for a quarter will entice those suicidal folks. At best, it's wishful thinking. At worst, it's a goddamn delusion that robs us of manpower, time, and resources that could be better spent actually saving a life or three.

Nope. To stop living is an inalienable right. My life, my tools, my choice.

Don't red flag me bro.
This x 1000%


Spoken like a guy who has never experienced depression, suicidal ideations, or conversely - come home to find someone you love dead in bed from their own actions.
I have experienced all but the last. This is the reason why many that live in the PNW go out into the woods to do the deed. Somebody is gonna find the mess, but at least it's not usually loved ones.

BTW, insulin is painless and not messy.... gonna support an insulin buyback? Yes, I know not many are offing themselves that way. But if the effort was really about "deaths", they would have prevention for EVERYTHING!!!
 
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With that reasoning outlawing Murder would stop gun violence..

View attachment 982084

They went from a narrative of preventing murders, to preventing gun violence, to preventing gun "deaths". By including suicide by gun, they not only run the "gun deaths in the USA" stats up, but they put a nice warm benevolent FEELINGS spin on their efforts to control others.

Remember when Covid started and the lockdowns were advertised as "two weeks to flatten the curve". Then it later morphed into "just until xx% of people are vaccinated". Now it is "until this scourge is eradicated", which is impossible.

BEWARE!!!: "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help"...
 
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Google: ubiquitous. "You" is not actually referencing you -- a poster on this forum -- rather, "they" and "us." This is a colloquial convention of standard American English that should not have to be explained to anyone -- except perhaps the most pedantic onlooker. "Me" is not me, but also "us," "we." See above. The context of this discussion should have made that abundantly clear. My error was in assuming same. Your logical error -- argumentum ad hominem -- occurred when you implied that I was both the topic of this thread and a 'hypersensitive gun owner.' Instead of a sematical dialectic however, I'd rather focus on the topic: You are right when you suggest a gun buyback will likely have little effect on suicide. What you failed to note is that suicide statistics should never be included in "gun violence" statistics as it is a typical, disingenuous -- and frankly cynical -- tactic deployed by the gun grabbers to pad their numbers in a pallid attempt to bludgeon sycophants with another logical fallacy: argumentum ad passiones. When people have to fudge their numbers to make their argument, it's a pretty good indication that even they themselves have little confidence in the veracity of their stated position and that it is one easily defeated by rational people arguing in good faith.

Do you ever NOT post how right you think you are and how wrong you think everyone else is?
 
Do you ever NOT post how right you think you are and how wrong you think everyone else is?
Hmh.I wasn't addressing you. But since you've inserted yourself into the discussion, do you consider your post to constitue being excellent as the forum rules require? Was Hueco being excellent when he/she/they implied I am a 'hyper sensitive gun owner'? Are you going to publicly chastize him/her/they/them for his/her/their thinly-veiled personal attack? Hueco is allowd to proffer an opinion yet I am not allowed to respond accordingly without being called out publicly by a moderator who should be acting as an impartial referee? If you think my post violates the foum rules, you are certainly empowered to do something about it. If not, I would suggest following your own rules. Thank you.
 
Hmh.I wasn't addressing you. But since you've inserted yourself into the discussion, do you consider your post to constitue being excellent as the forum rules require? Was Hueco being excellent when he implied I am a 'hyper sensitive gun owner'? Are you going to publicly chastize him/her/they/them for his/her/their thinly-veiled personal attack? Hueco is allowd to proffer an opinion yet I am not allowed to respond accordingly without being called out publicly by a moderator who should be acting as an impartial referee? If you think my post violates the foum rules, you are certainly empowered to do something about it. If not, I would suggest following your own rules. Thank you.
I don't need your lectures. Nor your reminders of the rules.
 
They went from a narrative of preventing murders, to preventing gun violence, to preventing gun "deaths". By including suicide by gun, they not only run the "gun deaths in the USA" stats up, but they put a nice warm benevolent FEELINGS spin on their efforts to control others.

Remember when Covid started and the lockdowns were advertised as "two weeks to flatten the curve". Then it later morphed into "just until xx% of people are vaccinated". Now it is "until this scourge is eradicated", which is impossible.

BEWARE!!!: "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help"...
And now they have the nerve to call it 'gun safety.' They realized 'gun control' put the emphasis on 'control.' And now they can argue "gosh who would be opposed to safety???" But only if we let them get away with such malfeasance.
 
The article is right on one thing: the overwhelming majority of people who fail in their attempt to commit suicide do not go on to try again and the majority of attempts by way of gun are lethal.

Getting a gun out of a suicidal person's hands is a worthwhile problem to solve.

But, I'm failing to see why they think the Gov offering a penny for a quarter will entice those suicidal folks. At best, it's wishful thinking. At worst, it's a goddamn delusion that robs us of manpower, time, and resources that could be better spent actually saving a life or three.
Nothing to stop a depressed person from selling their gun at market value compared to a gift card. Also, garbage guns at mislabeled buy backs don't prevent new gun sales.
 
Nothing to stop a depressed person from selling their gun at market value compared to a gift card. Also, garbage guns at mislabeled buy backs don't prevent new gun sales.
100%. Gun buybacks are nothing more than taxpayer-funded virtue-signaling campaign ads for cynical politicians who refuse to acknowledge the real causes of violent crime.
 
Let me paraphrase: Despite mountains of evidence that buyback programs do nothing, Biden should support wasting taxpayer money on buyback programs.

If it was an honest suggestion, it would be properly called "vote buyback program" since it has much more traction getting votes from the idiots for "doing something" instead of actually doing something.
 
Let me paraphrase: Despite mountains of evidence that buyback programs do nothing, Biden should support wasting taxpayer money on buyback programs.

If it was an honest suggestion, it would be properly called "vote buyback program" since it has much more traction getting votes from the idiots for "doing something" instead of actually doing something.
100%.
 
Spoken like a guy who has never experienced depression, suicidal ideations, or conversely - come home to find someone you love dead in bed from their own actions.
With all due respect, I have absolutely experienced all but the last, which I wouldn't wish on anyone. I'm not going to debate the pros, cons, impacts, or moral/spiritual/legal implications. I can easily imagine situations where being prevented from having an out is an intolerable and inhumane outcome. Now that's a condition I wouldn't wish on the worst, most evil people who have ever existed, let alone anyone else around me. Humans have limits, and it may not be pretty, but if we have any human rights at all, the right to not be forced beyond our limits is one of them (my two cents, worth every penny).
 
With all due respect, I have absolutely experienced all but the last, which I wouldn't wish on anyone. I'm not going to debate the pros, cons, impacts, or moral/spiritual/legal implications. I can easily imagine situations where being prevented from having an out is an intolerable and inhumane outcome. Now that's a condition I wouldn't wish on the worst, most evil people who have ever existed, let alone anyone else around me. Humans have limits, and it may not be pretty, but if we have any human rights at all, the right to not be forced beyond our limits is one of them (my two cents, worth every penny).
I had a rough childhood, to put it lightly. My best friend's mom basically took me in and raised me. And then one day, my bud and I walked home from school, fired up the ps2, and then noticed just how off the house felt. There were 5 dogs and they were all just...sad. We found her in bed, having taken a lethal amount of pills.

I would give just about anything to have this woman still in my life, in my daughter's life.

These conditions that you speak of are the subject of debate where physician assisted suicide is discussed. The reality, however, is that depression is a disease that twists the perceptions, magnifies self-doubts, and makes intolerable what should be tolerable. These two scenarios are far from the same and the solution for one will not work for the other. In short, those with depression need help - not to be told that offing themselves is a human right. My two cents, anyway. I don't feel like taking this conversation further, either, at this point either.
 
Gun Control...
Just like any law , restriction , ban etc....they only "work" if one wishes to abide by them.
Criminals by their action...do not abide by laws and such...so many if not all laws, restrictions bans and the like in regards to firearms , only serve to make it difficult for those who are law abiding to own firearms.

Also it has been said to not judge a whole group by the actions of a few within a particular group...
Why then is is "okay" to do so , with gun owners...?
I and millions of other gun owners are not the problem here....criminals are...why should we suffer the consequences of someone else's actions...?
Andy
 
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With all due respect, I have absolutely experienced all but the last, which I wouldn't wish on anyone. I'm not going to debate the pros, cons, impacts, or moral/spiritual/legal implications. I can easily imagine situations where being prevented from having an out is an intolerable and inhumane outcome. Now that's a condition I wouldn't wish on the worst, most evil people who have ever existed, let alone anyone else around me. Humans have limits, and it may not be pretty, but if we have any human rights at all, the right to not be forced beyond our limits is one of them (my two cents, worth every penny).

I had a rough childhood, to put it lightly. My best friend's mom basically took me in and raised me. And then one day, my bud and I walked home from school, fired up the ps2, and then noticed just how off the house felt. There were 5 dogs and they were all just...sad. We found her in bed, having taken a lethal amount of pills.

I would give just about anything to have this woman still in my life, in my daughter's life.

These conditions that you speak of are the subject of debate where physician assisted suicide is discussed. The reality, however, is that depression is a disease that twists the perceptions, magnifies self-doubts, and makes intolerable what should be tolerable. These two scenarios are far from the same and the solution for one will not work for the other. In short, those with depression need help - not to be told that offing themselves is a human right. My two cents, anyway. I don't feel like taking this conversation further, either, at this point either.
You both make compelling arguments and in an intelligent and inciteful manner. Thanks for being NWFA members.
 

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