Another Blow to the Constitution

[Trlsmn]

Oh no, no respect from you?

I fail to see why your word meaning nothing is funny? So how much money will it take to make you provide proof, I can send Paypal.

 

[jason97496]

How many of you reading this are aware that today, April 19, 2009 is the 234 anniversary of the battle at Lexington and Concord the start of our first Revolutionary War.

Here is a link if you would like the story:
<broken link removed>

I find it ironic that we are arguing if cops beating the tar out of a Patriot for not allowing an unreasonable search of his property should be condoned or not on this day.

 

[BUZO71]

I fail to see why your word meaning nothing is funny? So how much money will it take to make you provide proof, I can send Paypal.

Its your respect I find funny... You somehow think I need your respect...

 

[BUZO71]

I fail to see why your word meaning nothing is funny? So how much money will it take to make you provide proof, I can send Paypal.

here ya go though, I had some time...
[FONT=&quot]United States v Massie[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (65 F. 3d 843
At fixed checkpoint, border patrol agents may stop, briefly detain and question people without any reasonable suspicion.
Agents at secondary inspection can inquire into any suspicious circumstances they observe, as long as questioning is related to their duties.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]United States v Forbes (528 F. 3d 1273[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Border patrol agents have virtually unlimited discretion to refer cars to the secondary inspections area, and may make such referrals without any particularized suspicion of criminal activity.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]United States v Whitted (541 F. 3d 480
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Searches conducted at the nation's borders represent an exception to the warrant requirement, which applies not only at the physical boundaries of the United States, but also at the functional equivalent of a border including the first port where a ship docks after arriving from a foreign country.[/FONT]

 

[BUZO71]

Do I get your respect now? Please, pretty please

 

[jason97496]

please try to keep the petty insults to a minimum. It does not add credibility to your arguement and will only result in the Mods closing the thread and ending a valuable discussion.

Thank you
Jason

 

[Trlsmn]

Do I get your respect now? Please, pretty please

Yes I do as a matter of fact, I always appreciate when someone will back up their words and I do take back my mine! I hate subjective evidence and the internet is a haven of subject evidence.

 

[wakeadrian]

please try to keep the petty insults to a minimum. It does not add credibility to your arguement and will only result in the Mods closing the thread and ending a valuable discussion.

Thank you
Jason

I agree. I was about to type up a similar response.

I really enjoy and benefit from reading threads like this to see what people think about the situation. I would be disappointed to have it closed.

 

[BUZO71]

please try to keep the petty insults to a minimum. It does not add credibility to your arguement and will only result in the Mods closing the thread and ending a valuable discussion.

Thank you
Jason

Agreed... but its such a petty argument to question someone's integrity, don't you think.... on topic... as you can plainly see, this guy was wrong

 

[jason97496]

All that I can plainly see is that this guy is trying to make a stand against an Unconstitutional law that was written by power hungry fools. I agree that their are easier ways to make a point, but he is now getting a great deal of National attention for his cause.

A cause that I support.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/pastor_beaten_border_patrol_041809

 

[BUZO71]

Here's more reason to have these checkpoint inside the borders... [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
The most readily available data on the benefits of interior checkpoints are
the drug seizure and apprehension data recorded by the Border Patrol on a
daily basis at its checkpoints and stations.
In fiscal year 2004, for example,the Border Patrol reported that the southwest interior checkpoints, which were staffed by about 10 percent of Border Patrol agents in those sectors, were responsible for 96,000 illegal alien apprehensions, or 8 percent of all
Border Patrol apprehensions, and for seizure of 418,102 pounds of
Benefits and Costs of Traffic Checkpoints Are Difficult to Quantify, but Some
Examples Are Available Apprehensions and Drug Seizure Benefits
marijuana and 10,853 pounds of cocaine in fiscal year 2004, or about 31
percent of the marijuana and about 74 percent of the cocaine seized
nationally by the Border Patrol.

 

[BUZO71]

All that I can plainly see is that this guy is trying to make a stand against an Unconstitutional law that was written by power hungry fools. I agree that their are easier ways to make a point, but he is now getting a great deal of National attention for his cause.

A cause that I support.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/pastor_beaten_border_patrol_041809

Well, he's getting attention for his movement and church. Is he any better than Tre Arrow or someone camping in a tree at the state capitol?

 

[gunnoob75]

If we built a big wall along the south border, this wouldn't have been a problem. Checkpoints can stay at the border in that case.

A physical wall with armed guards walking back and forth across the entire southern border. Would cost a bit to build, but imagine the money saved in random checkpoints everywhere else.
Plus, we could hire guards. Opening up at least a few more jobs.

 

[jason97496]

I am all for the Border Patrol protecting our border. I have no data to support and add credability to my opinion. I only have logic and common sense.

I do not understand why we can not move the Border Patrol to the border. If they have the manpower to scatter checkpoints up to 100 miles from the border, why not secure the border. All that I got out of your last post is that they are not doing their job at the border and as a result they are harrassing private citizens on their way to work hoping to get lucky.

Please do not think that I do not respect LEOs. In high school I was torn between law enforcement and enlisting in the military. I chose the military. Everytime I pass a police car, I wave (with all 5 finger), and I have been on the police side of more arguements than I can remember.

Jason

 

[BUZO71]

Ya know, a few years ago, well, 1999, the plan was to hire enough BPA to have them stationed ever few hundred yard- within visual distance from the next agent... That was the "plan." That would have cut down on the unemployment! BPA has a hard time finding minimum numbers let alone that type of plan. The management gives BPA's little or no discretion and treats them like children... Its hard to find and keep people in jobs like that.

 

[candyman]

M) United States v Forbes (528 F. 3d 1273 (2008)

Even at border checkpoints, the Fourth Amendment prohibits the search of a vehicle's interior unless law enforcement officials receive consent, have a warrant, or otherwise establish probable cause to support the search.

 

[BUZO71]

I am all for the Border Patrol protecting our border. I have no data to support and add credability to my opinion. I only have logic and common sense.

I do not understand why we can not move the Border Patrol to the border. If they have the manpower to scatter checkpoints up to 100 miles from the border, why not secure the border. All that I got out of your last post is that they are not doing their job at the border and as a result they are harrassing private citizens on their way to work hoping to get lucky.

Please do not think that I do not respect LEOs. In high school I was torn between law enforcement and enlisting in the military. I chose the military. Everytime I pass a police car, I wave (with all 5 finger), and I have been on the police side of more arguements than I can remember.

Jason

Take a look at this...
Intelligence debriefings of smugglers and illegal aliens and reports of
increased smuggling costs provide some evidence of checkpoints’
deterrent effect. Information from debriefings suggests that interior
checkpoints deter some persons from attempting to go through them, and
also push them into rural areas that are more difficult to transit and where
they are more easily identifiable among a lower volume of traffic. In
addition, the presence of effective checkpoints can contribute to increased
smuggling costs, also possibly serving as a deterrent, according to the
Border Patrol. In the San Diego sector, for example, we were told by the
Border Patrol that smuggling fees charged to Mexicans and others had
increased fivefold in recent years (to about $1,500 per person), because of
the perceived difficulty of breaching border defenses and of transiting
through interior checkpoints undetected. It is difficult, however, to
separate out the contribution to deterring potential illegal entrants from
entering the United States of increases in smuggling fees that are due to
better line watch and line patrol border operations versus those cost
increases that could be attributed to vigilance at interior checkpoints.

 

[treemanx]

Here's more reason to have these checkpoint inside the borders... [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
The most readily available data on the benefits of interior checkpoints are
the drug seizure and apprehension data recorded by the Border Patrol on a
daily basis at its checkpoints and stations.
In fiscal year 2004, for example,the Border Patrol reported that the southwest interior checkpoints, which were staffed by about 10 percent of Border Patrol agents in those sectors, were responsible for 96,000 illegal alien apprehensions, or 8 percent of all
Border Patrol apprehensions, and for seizure of 418,102 pounds of
Benefits and Costs of Traffic Checkpoints Are Difficult to Quantify, but Some
Examples Are Available Apprehensions and Drug Seizure Benefits
marijuana and 10,853 pounds of cocaine in fiscal year 2004, or about 31
percent of the marijuana and about 74 percent of the cocaine seized
nationally by the Border Patrol.

But when did it become the Border Patrols assigned job to look for drugs within the continental US? I thought they were getting paid to stop illegal immigrants from crossing into our country? Maybe if they focused more on "PATROLLING THE BORDER" as their very name implies, we would have less illegals in our country, and less drugs. But we already have agencies that deal with trafficing illegal substances. We actually spend ALOT of money on agencies that deal with trafficing illegal substances. And we spend good money on Border Patrol also. So if this guy was a Spanish speaking Mexican, who didnt understand english, and had three wiggling arms hanging out the back of his car, then by all means, search him. But there are plenty of god fearing legal US citizens who pass thbrough these check points, and the arrogant BP agents who treat everyone as though they are doing something wrong, is wrong.

 

[jason97496]

I really wish that I had been given the opportunity to vote on that issue. They certainly would have had my vote. I am sorry that they are treated like children. If I could stop that I would. But, this in no way gives them the right to act like children and beat the tar out of this guy for being difficult.

 

[BUZO71]

Please do not think that I do not respect LEOs. In high school I was torn between law enforcement and enlisting in the military. I chose the military. Everytime I pass a police car, I wave (with all 5 finger), and I have been on the police side of more arguements than I can remember.

Jason

I can see your side of it. And if you were to only see this guys side of things, you'd think, those BPA's should go to jail. Its only when you begin to research the law you find these guys were right. Now the law can be up for debate, but not the actions of these BPA's.

I also believe BPA's can do bad things- look at Ramos and Campean. Any cop, doing what they did, would be in prison now. I started out thinking these guys were patsies, but after reading reports and seeing evidence, I came to the educated response that these guys deserve to be in jail. If you talk to BPA's in the sector, they'll tell you these guys lied and illegally shot at that guy. The only reason they are out now is political pressure.