Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Another bike thread....as it relates to a real SHTF (Major Cascadia earthquake)

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by billcoe, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. billcoe

    billcoe PDX Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

    Messages:
    758
    Likes Received:
    385
    I saw Bens bike thread get shut down after it turned into an argument between drivers and riders over who (whom?) was the bigger douchbag. This is hopefully to alert the out of shape car and truck drivers of the real possibility that the best SHTF vehicle might in fact be a bike. (Bicycle). Lets keep this on a preparedness-survival theme, just like the forum title, and save the finger pointing. If possible. Sure the bikes impact may be much like a nat on a cows bubblegum, small and insignificant. Unless there is widespread participation and planning.

    We've all seen the scientists increase their predictions that a major earthquake is much closer to us than we formerly perceived. Some of us saw the buckled roads of the 1964 Alaska quake. It that were to be transposed here, catastrophic would be the only word for it and it would hit us all. Hard. Portland is getting national attention via their program to start integrating bikes into disaster planning. http://www.oregonlive.com/commuting/index.ssf/2014/07/portland_cargo_bike_disaster_d.html There are a lot of great comments of all shape and sizes and humor levels. One of the best comments will be copied and pasted here.

    Kenji_Sugahara said:


    Consider a widespread quake wherein PDX and Seattle get it the worst. In 3-5 days PDX is out of gas, Seattle, as the bigger city with much more Federal presence, will get the big Federal earthquake relief (if it comes) first. So even if you have a bug out plan and extra fuel stored (like most of us do), getting past the buckled roads may be impossible.
     
  2. WashCoDad

    WashCoDad Beanerton Active Member

    Messages:
    111
    Likes Received:
    37
    I am sorry.... but what do you want to discuss??
    Bike?
    Earthquake?
    Fuel for hummer?
    I am lost.
     
  3. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    6,739
    Likes Received:
    10,941
    If your serious about leaving the city during such an instance - a dirt bike would work much better on many levels.

    More hauling power, faster, great gas mileage and no practicing.

    I don't normally ride a bike but having done so regularly before, I know you really need to build up those muscles to get very far without feeling like a damp rag.
     
    Hook686 likes this.
  4. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,772
    Likes Received:
    2,695
    You are going to be ONE TIRED JOSE by the time you get to La Grande on a bicycle . . .
    IF we let you get that far!!!!

    Sheldon
     
    Quacky88 and forefathersrback like this.
  5. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    6,469
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Your better off with a canoe or small boat and start floating down the Willamette/Columbia towards the coast, then trying to manage the surface roads with all of the crowds.
     
    mjbskwim and nwwoodsman like this.
  6. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    1,726
    Yeah a debris filled river is the last place you'd want to be especially if you little to no experience on those rivers.
     
    d2the3 likes this.
  7. HenryJ

    HenryJ Eastern Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    130
    It is all about options. I see a bicycle as one, a motorcycle another, and a 4x4 yet another. :)
     
  8. ocarolan

    ocarolan Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes Received:
    426
    Dirt bike is a good option, although most are about 99 dB more noisy than a bicycle.

    This company is now making silent, battery-powered dirt bikes. Expensive but they could work for some applications.

    http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
     
  9. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    6,899
    There are all kinds of options.

    Folding bike like a Montague - cheaper than a dirt bike, easier to haul around.

    Electric motors for bicycles.

    Pusher engines for bicycles - can be a hybrid - could be a partial trailer too.

    Bicycles with various types of engines.

    Bicycle/motorcycle hybrid.

    Motoped-Motorized-Bicycle.jpg

    The nice thing about bicycles up to about 100 pounds or so, is that you can manhandle them over obstacles. Even the lightest dirt bikes weigh about 180 pounds and can be a bear to lift over a fence, over majorly buckled roads, etc.

    Both bicycles and dirt bikes can pull a trailer. This is made by a really nice guy from AdvRider:

    cust-me10.jpg

    The problem with a motorcycle is carrying one around in a car - pretty much is going to happen, not easily anyway, and you won't want to do it on a regular basis.

    I commute into Portland daily. I live at my BOL on a mountain 30 miles out of town, so my major concern if an earthquake hit while I was at work, after whether my office building came down around my ears, would be getting home. A folding bicycle is my plan. A pusher engine on a trailer would maybe be combined with bicycle, although it would take up a lot more room in combination with the bicycle.

    Once home I am covered. If I can get to my kids place which is about halfway between work and home, then I would probably be good too.
     
    coastal steelheader likes this.
  10. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    4,967
    Your bicycle can ride you real nice right up to the first river. Then you best hope for a rubber boat and a prayer to get across the Willamette or any of the dozens of smaller rivers south, east or west of Portland.
     
  11. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,776
    Likes Received:
    4,967
    if you are in EAST Portland then the Willamette, Sandy, And Clackamas Rivers effectively make a Box you can't get out of without a boat a bridge or a swim.

    if you are in West Portland (downtown) the Willamette will keep you to its West side all the way to Eugene and beyond.
     
    nwwoodsman likes this.
  12. nwwoodsman

    nwwoodsman Vernonia Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    1,083
    Bike is a great option for SHTF, especially when fuel supplies are low or you want to remain quiet when scouting an area. They will also come in handy when you come to a busted up road and may have to carry it for short periods of time. Hard to do that with a car. That being said it is also a good idea to have a boat if traveling by water becomes necessary. 4 wheel drive is good for traveling rough roads and you can haul a bike should that become needed. Don't limit yourself to one means of transportation. As the old saying goes, one is none, etc etc blah blah blah....Personally, I'd like to have a couple of these for when the SHTF (at least that's what I tell my wife) http://www.rokon.com/1_4_trail-breaker.html
     
  13. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    I think I'm covered.

    065.JPG
     
    Jamie6.5, sailorfej and Sgt Nambu like this.
  14. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    6,899
    The Santiam will keep you north of Albany if you are going down I-5 and the bridge is out, unless you are a really good swimmer - I swam across it once right by the freeway, but I had fins on.

    You can go around some of these rivers, but you run into other rivers. On my way home I have to cross the Tualatin. I could probably swim across it, but there are a lot of snags in it even though it is a very slow river at that point and very muddy, so I wouldn't want to try.

    Some bicycles will more or less float, especially those with the new big tires. You could put them in the water and swim across pulling or pushing the bike if the current isn't swift. A little floatation will hold up those bikes that don't float as well. The big thing on many rivers here is the snags, especially on the banks. If you go far enough up a river you can often find shallow areas where you can wade across. Depends on the time of year of course. Some rivers I wouldn't attempt even in a power boat when they are at flood stage.
     
  15. Hook686

    Hook686 Northern California Active Member

    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    226
    I you want to avoid the traffic jam try a one man helicopter.
    GEN H-4 by ADEYTO

    Collage8.jpg
     
  16. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    1,859
    It strikes me that you're not really talking about bikes here exactly... what you're talking about is mode of transportation that is both lightweight, very maneuverable, and eschews petrochemical energy.

    For those that are in the downtown areas... I agree, a bicycle would fit these needs perfectly, it doesn't need fodder like a horse would, it doesn't need gas or a parking place like a motorcycle/dirtbike would, it doesn't need a field to take off or land in like a micro-helicopter or ultralight would. Where you can't ride it, you can push it, where you can't push it, you can carry it, there are many benefits to the bike, which is a major reason they still exist in the universe of things.

    However, it's important to define the mission, and then choose a mode of transit that fits it. For most of us, watching the french army ride off to war on their bicycles is a joke, however at a time and place where transport trucks and endless supplies of gasoline were a rarer commodity than horse drawn utility carts, an army that maintained it's mobility on bicycles was still a rational means of transporting large numbers of troops, it was faster than marching them, and it was cheaper than trucks, even then, you could stuff bikes and soldiers on trains if you needed to.

    In the case of a large cascadia earthquake and it's affect on PDX, what may have gone unmentioned so far is how far the tsunami will reach into the columbia estuary, making little mention of liquefaction, the city itself is under great threat from these forces, to the point that your best course of action would be getting on that bike, and riding to high ground as fast as your little legs can carry you. At which point, I think the dirtbike/moped would likely be a better choice.

    After reading the "oregon resilience plan" I remain unconvinced that a bike will really be of much value, in fact, the whole section on transportation infrastructure makes zero mention of bikes, bicycles or the like, and at the same time it does indicate that the portland metro area will likely be affected by a tsunami wave moving up the columbia all the way up to Bonneville dam.

    The specific vulnerability to the commercial fuel tank storage yard, is hardly a surprise, but one of the other things discussed is that nearly all of the fuel in that storage yard comes from the Puget sound and the refineries there. If you assume that a major cascadia event would be just as destructive for the coastlines in the sound, as it would be to PDX, it seems again that taking your bike and GTFO would be the best option unless you had somewhere to hole up.

    The topic of bugout transportation, or any kind of post-disaster transportation is a complex one that depends on a huge number of regional factors, everything from climate, to geography, to geology, to demographics, and economics. It's all things that are good to think about and have discussion about, but again, there are no cut and dry answers, except don't live in portland during a cascadia subduction zone event.

    The factors that are going to influence your opinion about which is best:

    1) Distance - The farther safety is, the more gas is going to be the attractive option, unless it's more than a few hundred miles, at which point spare food, and either a bike or the shanks mare are your modes of choice.
    2) Terrain - Is this open flat-land desert? Agricultural land? Or is it mountains full of trees where roads don't exist. Since this is the US we're talking about, generally there are roads that go just about everywhere, so being able to deal with the frequent interruptions that are common to your area would be a larger concern than simply your mode of transit.
    3) logistics - Do you have enough fuel to move the distance you need to? How much stuff do you need to take with you? How many people do you need to take with you? Generally, as soon as families become involved cars and trucks become more common. Kids are like luggage, that have their own luggage.

    For me, I grew up in socal and have ridden out some of the biggest earthquakes we've had down here. The defining factor generally, was that any breakdown of the transportation infrastructure was immediately followed by a reduced need to travel very far. When the Landers quake hit, we didn't need to go across the city to get lumber, we were focusing on removing the 4 feet of water that sloshed out of the pool and into the dining room of my grandparents restaurant. When the northridge quake hit, we didn't need to get on a bike to move bottles of water around, because we already had water storage (even then, the normal city water taps worked just fine), and school was closed for a week to check for structural problems. Granted, I don't live in a tsunami zone, and never have.

    Earthquakes are an unknown commodity for the pacific northwest, everyone knows they happen, but no one has the experience of actually being around when a major event on the Juan De Fuca trench happens. The nearest evidence anyone has is historical records from japan, unless you want to consult the fossil record.

    As with all things "preparedness" related, a layered approach that covers the bases is always best, will bikes be a valid mode of transportation? Yes, as will walking, driving cars, flying planes, and driving boats. As Heinlein said: Overspecialization is for insects.
     
    Trailboss and The Heretic like this.
  17. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    2,777
    Sandy River is a path for mudslides (pyroclastic flow) from Mt Hood into the Columbia River.
    A "Layered Approach" is "Inspector Closeau's" "expect everything, and expect nothing" or, as I am fond of saying "Semper Gumby" "Always Flexible".

    Any bridge may or may not survive...
     
  18. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    6,469
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Carry lots of bicycle tire tube patches and glue.
     
  19. receo

    receo Sandy, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    116
    Here's a solution for a river/bike problem. It's a fun piece of kit on its own. Has a built in non powered inflator that serves as a stuff sack. Lite weight but not http://gearjunkie.com/klymit-lwd-packraft
     
    AMProducts likes this.
  20. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,042
    Likes Received:
    1,043
    Do you swim next to it?