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And the body count continues: Chicago v. Seattle

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Dave Workman, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  2. FortunateSon

    FortunateSon Marion County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Stupid restrictive gun laws that only restrict only the law-abiding citizens and prevents them from defending themselves.

    I'm certainly not an "educated" man, as you would assume politicians to be, but even I can figure that one out........
     
  3. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Well, when you do, please let the rest of us in on the secret!
     
  4. FatherHolyHoly

    FatherHolyHoly MN Active Member

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    While I would not say it is the only reason, I do believe a major force behind the passage of these laws is the lobbying by private prisons in America to criminalize virtually everything that we do or will end up doing at some point in our lives. For the prisons it's their livelihood, for the politicians it's power over their subjects and sadly, their livelihood as well.

    Not to mention that the creation of any law under the guise of "protecting our citizens" is an easy sell to the majority of Americans.

    It deeply saddens me to say, but a country that imprisons more people per capita than China, cannot be called a free country.



    World Prison Populations Source: BBC NEWS | In Depth
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  5. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...something just doesn't seem right about that now does it?
     
  6. Father of four

    Father of four Portland, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    We incarcerate more then Red Communist China! Yeah...something just doesn't seem right about that.
     
  7. rumblebee1967

    rumblebee1967 Bellingham Active Member

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    I dont not believe it is fair to call politicians educated. They may have gone to school a lot be they may not have learned a da...d thing.
     
  8. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    It proves to me that we need more armed citizens that shoot back, then we can just bury them rather than spending all that money on trials and jail space (3 hots and a cot no longer needed!)
     
  9. BAMCIS

    BAMCIS Eugene Well-Known Member

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    Its safer here than in nearly any large American city. And I'd sure as hell not go outside the wire here without being very well armed.
     
  10. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    A couple of reasons the US prison population is now so high:

    1. Americans hate taxes and love privatization. Many prisons are now private, and private prison groups actively lobby for stricter laws, so more people end up in prison.

    Here's just one example from Corrections Corporation of America:

    CCA spent $14.8 million lobbying the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the Office of Management and Budget, the Bureau of Prisons, both houses of Congress, and others between 2003 and 2010.

    2. Americans love politicians with 'get tough on crime' policies like three strikes and mandatory sentences, which end up taking discretion away from judges and also putting more people in prison for longer, often for non-violent crimes. Half of all state prisoners are for non-violent crimes, and 20% are for drug offenses. 'Tough on crime' politicians also makes the job of a prison lobbyist a lot easier, and recently there are even examples of criminal statutes that were actually drafted by prison lobbyists.

    For those complaining about the cost, it is generally cheaper to imprison someone than carry out the death penalty. Prison staff don't cost as much as lawyers. We would need to remove the right to a fair trial or appeal and send suspects straight to the gallows to really save some taxes.
     
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  11. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    you mean execution immediately after trial? Like China? Until China was trying to become the venue for the olympics they took those found guilty and sentenced to death out back of the courthouse and shot them. As many civil rights groups were less than pleased with this they changed it - now they have regional roving RVs with a few lethal injection beds inside. They schedule trials with the death sentence around when the death mobile will be at that court. At least that was the findings listed in a briefing document prepared for the secretary over DOC about 5 years back.
     
  12. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    Hey, but at least they aren't in prison to pump up the numbers, right?
     
  13. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    The principle contributor to this is a/the culture shift that has taken place since the 50s and 60s.

    At one time, the dominant culture of U.S. citizens closely resembled the independent spirit and desire for freedom that guided the founders.
    That included self defense, as both a desirable trait, as well as being something of a requirement among the populace.

    After 50 years of collective/socialist guided primary and secondary education, the culture has shifted away from freedom, independence and individual success and self protection.
    Think about how often successful people (and businesses) are demonized today. How often we hear about how bad the me-me-me generation is/was. This is now deemed a form of greed and/or avarice.
    How: "It's not fair if it's not shared." They don't pay: "Their fair share."

    Furthermore, few are ever credited nowadays for "making it on their own." Most if not all credit and accolades are attributed to organized groups or "community friendly" programs or businesses.

    For years we have heard and read about the "culture wars."
    Well guess what? Those that have guided the narrative of U.S. culture have deemed individuality and self-defense, as well as self-promotion as a bad thing, or at least an unworthy stance that neglects "the community".

    The preponderance of opinions now is: What's good for the goose, is only good for the gander if it's good for the flock.

    That's the part that we as gun owners fail to understand about those who write these laws. They don't recognize the validity or desirability of an "independent American" any longer.
    They only see the flock, and all "virtuous" pursuits must benefit the flock (collective) first, and the individual second.

    They see an unarmed flock as a good thing, not recognizing that there may be a need among individual members of said flock.
    Because they don't see individual pursuits, self-reliance, and/or success as a virtue any longer. You are either part of the flock (collective) or you're an outlier, AKA: anti-social loner, and pose a danger to the flock.

    Furthermore, we know the last thing the collective wants is an armed flock.
    Why else would they jump to the conclusion that an armed group constitutes a "militia" or a "terrorist" group?
    They have no hope whatsoever of controlling an armed flock, so they convince their members to reject any/all gun owners as extremists, lest they become a majority faction within the flock.

    Imagine for a minute if you will, a neighborhood in Chicago where it became widely known that EVERY household had guns, and multiple people that knew how to use them.
    What do you think the gang-crime rate in that neighborhood would be?
     
  14. 1stIDFMP

    1stIDFMP North of Salem, south of Portland Active Member

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    When you enact more gun laws, it makes the sheeple feel safer..................
     
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  15. MrFiux

    MrFiux Tillamook County Member

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    Sheeple feel like this

    3q886s.jpg

    3q886s.jpg
     
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  16. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    Now that Gov Mandates are fashionable How about we get congress to mandate a gun in everyhouse for national security.

    I can hear the crying progressives already booohooo
     
  17. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

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    Think of how high unemployment would be if we let out all of the prisoners. This is why the government needs to imprison so many -- so they can spin the unemployment figures.
     
  18. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That is very.....efficient.
     
  19. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    Jamie6.5 - require everyone to own a firearm? Like Kennesaw, GA? Look it up - Since 1982 they have required every household to have a firearm and ammunition.

    Guess the flock forgot that they need sheepdogs to protect them from the wolves... An ex gf quit teaching after being scolded and singled out for doing an exercise to show the good and bad of socialism vs conservative views while other teachers were not called out for openly promoting leftist views.
     
  20. longcolt

    longcolt Zephyrhills, FL Active Member

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    Sounds like a ad for the United Nations. Fact is my friend, communist countries never waste their assets on prisons and feeding a large prison population. Take a look at history, they simply kill off anyone that is a big problem and they always have. Million have died in Russia, China and other communist countries. So your comparison makes no sense.

    In America you do the crime you do the time. So since we refuse to kill our violent offenders they occupy floor space in prisons and make up the numbers that you use in your survey.

    But yes, our culture is somewhat more violent as compared to other free nations, like Japan for instance. We tend to be a lot more independent and maybe ignore laws more, like the drug laws as an example. And, yes, you are correct about the US having too many people sitting around making new laws, many to extract fees and revenue from taxpayers. Kind of like beating up the goose that lays the golden eqq.

    I worry a lot more about the people on the street than the idiots in prison that have committed acts that put them there. Our focus needs to be on prevention and treating mental illness rather than letting out the creatures that reside in our prisons. Just my personal humble opinion.