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The people that do vote for it are misguided. Just like 66 and 67, where do they really think that 700 million is really coming from? Everyday it seems like they keep voting to raise taxes on something or somebody but it all rolls downhill to the commom people.


Yeah, if they'd let me I'd have voted against that one. But I don't live there.

I did wonder, though.. how many are there in the state of Oregon? Better, how many households? Three million, maybe four? OK, take 3.5 million. Probably a fourth of that in households. Divide 700 by 3.5... that's two hundred bucks more for every household. So, you say, the tax is mainly onn corporations and businesses? Fine... how are THEY gonna pay for it unless they pass it along to their customers? SO, overall, each household in Oregon has to pay its piece of it. Oh, not directly, most of it will be in the incerased cost of goods... and increased other taxes for things like unemployment for the workers let go.


Ya see, soooner or later other people's money dries up, cause its all spent. But the dummies in the statehouse just don't get it, nor do the voters.
 
Just to keep all of us on track as I and certain moderators have also contributed to this very "civilized" discussion.............

What this passage means to me is I am looking for "ammo and firearms" prices to yet go up again (however insignificantly) to help the businesses cover the changes in their taxes. OH annnnd the price of my smokes just went up AGAIN too...............:(

Just to keep us on the issue of NORTHWEST FIREARMS and how this topic affects them............ just had to do it after this many pages.:D
 
I'm sorry but teachers are VASTLY underpaid compared to the time they put into schooling.

I know teachers that have put in 15 years with a masters degree and is making around 50 thousand a year.

They are undermanned and the classes are just getting larger and larger. Their workload is getting bigger and harder, they deserve pay increases IMO.

Public education isn't this cheesecake situation where kids come to school, sit down, pay attention like people seem to think.

It's not the teachers. It's the admin/principals who are bringin in over 100k a year and the football coaches who get 65 grand a year and only teach two classes a day, one trimester a year.

Do I agree with the tax increases? **** no but complaining about the teachers getting a pay raise and benefits is laughable at best.

Do you not realize in some distracts, teachers have actually had their salaries FROZEN and will NEVER count towards their pay, which is based on teaching experience?

I'd like to see some of the people who piss and moan about teachers wanting a pay raise, go in and sit in a classroom with butthole kids 8 hours a day for 50k a year.

It's also ridiculous to think performance pay is an actual answer. Have you even stepped foot into highschool recently? You really think their pay deserves to be dockts because of parenting faults?

Is it their fault when parents don't care about their kids education enough to make them go to school thus resulting in bad grades? Is it their fault that the funding keeps getting cut and they are expected to actually teach in a 50 minute class with 40-60 kids in it?

I dare you to try and teach in a small room that is packed with horny, testostorone filled males that are trying to constantly impress the opposite sex.

Public education isn't education anymore, it's daycare.

Your expectations are absolutely ridiculous.

First I have say to I might switch my masters to teaching. Second I disagree with all of the unions and other crap. They are paid well and I did spend a year in a class room with my son. Wasn't bad and about the easiest job I had.

My first real job was in the military and you don't want to compare wages or hours worked there. I would beat the teachers hands down in that area except for pay. I made about 850 every 2 weeks and worked years of 7 days a week for the most part and was in Somalia and Iraq. No holidays for most as the military works around the clock. Did that for 10 years then left.

After that I was an journeyman ironworker and worked 6 12 hour days and with overtime I was get close to your mention salary but I had to work 10x's harder for it. I spent a couple of thousand a year on tools, clothes, boots, and other items. So I don't like hearing teachers complain about buying pencils, paper, or other items. You know why they don't quit? Because they love the pay and benefits and will not get near that in the private sector. Ask them for performance base pay and what do you think will happen?

Plus there are many other low wage workers around here that teachers make double what they do and don't work nearly as hard. Look at all the construction, framers, and many others. I know people who work in drug and alcohol counseling with masters and they make 34,000 with crappy benefits. So don't tell me how hard it is for them. Teachers have a great job with awesome benefits and I don't want to hear it's for the kids anymore. Is walking out on strike for the kids? If it is why is the topic always pay raisers and health care? Just something to think about.
 
[Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
So seeing as how I have no children, why should I have to pay for schools? I did not post that comment. You can go back and look but I did not post it.

Because Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act!!!!!!!![/QUOTE] I posted this to the question above.

Did you get a public education yourself? As someone who has children, thanks buddy, they are great kids, very smart, your dough wasn't wasted on them.

By the way I opposed the war in Iraq 4 months before it started, do I still have to pay for it?


I was public as well as my kids. It was better though when I went to school compared to my kids.

As for the war that's on you if you want to pay for it or not. I don't mind paying for national security if it keeps us safe and from 9/11 happening again I am all for it. I am also for going after every country who decides to kill our citizens. This comes from shut up or put up..... That's my mentality and since many don't know the real reasons for war it's a hard decision. Most of what people know is from MSNBC and other like stations. But I suppose if everybody wants to by safe they should pay.

Anyways thanks for the comments and I am glad your kids are smart and doing well. Same here for mine.
 
I remodeled a Willamette valley school a few years ago during summer break. About 1/3 rd of teachers were in about 2 weeks ahead to school starting and checking out the room, bringing things in, setting things up and making sure it's going to be ready. About 1/3 were in 3 or 4 day's ahead doing the same thing. The others were in at the last minute, not showing much intrest. That is pretty much like the construction crews I've hired. But I could get rid of the 1/3 I didn't want.
 
Well, the maintenance guy at the apartments where my son lives is an illegal immigrant, and speaks a "little" English. He told my son that he makes $14 per hour and gets a "free" apartment off the books, he's on call for emergency's, and is paid for 50 hours per week, at $14 per hour = $700 a week, plus $560 a month free rent = about $43,120 per year, he's unmarried but claims 12 dependents so pays no taxes, claims all his dependents are in his native country. Now compare that to what we pay the people who teach our kids...............:s0001:
 
First I have say to I might switch my masters to teaching. Second I disagree with all of the unions and other crap. They are paid well and I did spend a year in a class room with my son. Wasn't bad and about the easiest job I had.

How old was your son? And a week is an extremely small samplesize to base your opinion on.

My first real job was in the military and you don't want to compare wages or hours worked there. I would beat the teachers hands down in that area except for pay. I made about 850 every 2 weeks and worked years of 7 days a week for the most part and was in Somalia and Iraq. No holidays for most as the military works around the clock. Did that for 10 years then left

First off, thank you for your service and secondly, yes I believe you were vastly underpaid also.

After that I was an journeyman ironworker and worked 6 12 hour days and with overtime I was get close to your mention salary but I had to work 10x's harder for it.

And theres jobs out there, where people make less and work harder than you did. Whats your point? When you have degrees you generally get paid more than you do without anything more than a highschool education, that's pretty common knowledge.

I spent a couple of thousand a year on tools, clothes, boots, and other items. So I don't like hearing teachers complain about buying pencils, paper, or other items.

I'm pretty sure that's not what they complain about.

You know why they don't quit? Because they love the pay and benefits and will not get near that in the private sector.

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that's the education they have already paid/paying for and cannot afford to quit their career because they have families right? There's just so many jobs out there for them to switch to, especially in this booming economy.


Ask them for performance base pay and what do you think will happen?

Performance based pay is an absolute horrendous idea. Woud you really want your pay based on kids who don't give a crap because their parents don't give a crap? What about the fact that there is an increasing amount of mexicans going into our public schools who have language barriers etc.

I'm all for revamping the education system, it's complete garbage right now but performance based pay is just a flat out stupid idea.

Plus there are many other low wage workers around here that teachers make double what they do and don't work nearly as hard. Look at all the construction, framers, and many others.

Again, education nearly always trumps physical labor.

I know people who work in drug and alcohol counseling with masters and they make 34,000 with crappy benefits. So don't tell me how hard it is for them.

So because the counslers are underpaid means that teachers cannot be? What about the teachers who make 30,000 a year with crappy benefits? It's not hard for them? They aren't overpaid?

Teachers have a great job with awesome benefits and I don't want to hear it's for the kids anymore.

Great job? Yes. Easy job? No.

I plan on going into Pharmacy with my Bachelor in Early Childhood education. Good for you for thinking about going into the field.

Is walking out on strike for the kids? If it is why is the topic always pay raisers and health care? Just something to think about

Have you ever sat in on city council meeting or anything of the sort? I've watched many and their largest complaint is that the classrooms are getting bigger along with their workload and positions after position are being cut.

They aren't asking for huge payraises, they are asking for the cost of living increases that every/nearly every other government job gets.
 
from bugeye:

Socialism is when the people and the government take over private enterprise in order to equalize the distribution of wealth. Since the reverse of that wealth distribution is happening in the US, we are heading toward the state where the goverment and private enterprise cooperate and command the people, it's called fascism, and that is more the direction we we are heading in.


not quite. Socialism is when the government owns and controls the means of production, and distributes the proceeds as IT sees fit.

fascism is when the people own the means of production, but the government controls it and the distribution of the proceeds.

Proceeds can be in the form of goods, services, or cash.

Bottom line, though, Bugeye, you are right... NEITHER is what we signed up for.

Tea party anyone? That was the response of the Colonists to England's attempts to turn fascist. 'One more "definition" I'll toss into the pot:

tyranny is when those in power rule on the basis of their power and strength. The original construction of our government is that the power devolves from the people, and returns to govern them as THEY see fit.

Now tell me, which of these two patterns is closer to our present reality?

It was the TYRANNY of the British Crown and Parliament the colonists threw off.
can we do it again? WILL we do it again?
 
You "believe" teachers work 200+ days a year? Sorry, the maximum school year in the country is 180 days. Inservice days? Having meetings and seminars, or whatever the heck they do?

Do you still not understand the fact that just because the kids aren't in school, doesn't mean the teachers aren't?

It is part of their job to be there. Do you think just because they kids aren't there, they shouldn't be paid even though they are recquired to go? Thats just flat out stupid.

kids sure aren't learning anything those days, that's for sure. How about fewer "inservice" days and more teaching days?

That would be a good start.

The point is, no matter how you stretch it, teachers "work" far fewer weeks per year than any other "full-time" employed people. Whether it's 33 or 34 or 35 weeks a year it's far fewer weeks than the 52 weeks in the "year" of the "they make only $50,000 a 'year'" statement.

It's closer to 40 weeks a year than it is to "34 or 35" and majority of people do not work 52 weeks a year. Hate to break it to ya.

And as I said, many teachers work a second job during those many weeks they have off every year, so their income isn't just the $50,000 "a year" (really 7-8 months) you keep quoting.

What do other jobs have to do with this converstation? We are talking about their teaching salary. And what type of jobs do you think they get? Majority of them go onto work minimum/near minimum wage type jobs.

You act as if people are forced to go into teaching at gunpoint. There is no shortage of people who want to be teachers compared to say, nurses. Obviously college students are looking at what teachers do, what they make, and how many weeks they work in their "year" and are deciding "that's a pretty good deal".

You have no ideas what peoples motives are. McDonalds and wal-mart are two of the biggest employers in the country, I guess their employees look at the job and decide "thats a pretty good deal" also.

If they were really that "underpaid" no one would be going into that field, there would be a shortage of labor, and wages would rise. That isn't the case, lots of people happy to earn "only" $50,000 to work 33-35 weeks a year. So no tears for them.

That fact that you keep quoting 33-35 weeks a year shows your true ignorance. And you act like every teacher is making 50,000 a year. That is AFTER 12-15 years of experience.

As to the labor shortage? There IS A LABOR SHORTAGE. Why do you think district after district is cutting employees? There was an article on Oregonlive and I believe it stated that over 50% of the graduates going into the teaching field were unemployed and stuck with student loans?

As to going into teaching? It's a popular field. There is alot of people who want to work with children and it's a rather easy degree to obtain. It's nearly the same as a Business degree in that sense.

When you look at the quality of students competing to get into medical school, law school, dental school, pharmacy school, business school, graduate engineering school, etc. the students going into education at are the bottom in terms of grades and test scores. There is a reason a MBA earns more than someone with a masters in education.

Do you think telling me that people going into Medical School/Law School etc are better students than the ones going into education somehow supports your arguement? That's common sense bud.

And it doesn't just apply to the field of education. Med school, Pharm school, Law school students are the cream of the crop compared to nearly every person who settles for a bachelor, not just education.

Just because the administrators and principals are even more overpaid (I'm sure principals have the same 33-35 week year that teachers do) than the people doing the real work doesn't mean teachers are underpaid. If they were really underpaid we would be having to import teachers the way we have to import nurses (whom the free market says are truly underpaid, because there is a chronic shortage of them), but we don't. There is no shortage of 2.5 GPA college graduates willing to work 33-35 weeks a year.

Comparing teaching to nursing? Apples and oranges sparky.

You can certainly "feel" or "believe" that teachers are underpaid, and maybe that NBA basketball players are overpaid, but the free market sets wages. If there were lots of people who could play at the NBA level, players would be easily replaceable and couldn't demand high salaries, and incomes would fall. But that doesn't happen, because for all of the guys who would like to play in the NBA, only a tiny percentage can play at that level, so they can demand and get the big bucks.

Majority of jobs have lines of people waiting to step up behind them and this isn't true for just education. Barring basically the medical field, there is huge competition out there for work, not just education.

Meanwhile, there is no shortage of C+ college graduates who can do what teachers do, so they can't demand higher wages, because they are easily replaced by other C+ graduates.

You act as if education is the only one who has these students or problems? I know teachers that are smarter than you and I will ever be. Applying a statement like that to every graduating student shows that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you have statistics that back your claim, or is it just one that you cooked up in your head? Do you personally inspect each and every graduates transcripit?

Now, I think all government workers tend to be overpaid, especially in education, because unlike in the private sector there are few consequences for poor performance or failure. In the private sector if an employee doesn't perform they are fired, and if a business can't compete or puts out a shoddy product it goes out of business. A poorly performing company can't just take more money from its customers the way the government can take more money from us in higher taxes.

Actually, with the budget cuts and everything there have been alot of poor performing teachers who have lost their positions. Not to mention education seems to have one of the highest turnover rates amongst jobs with degrees.

But the public schools can continue to employ marginal employees and do a mediocre job of their primary mission and yet suffer no consequences.

Maybe you are only getting marginal employees because the field isn't as desireable as you make it out to be? If it was as awesome as you are making it out to be.

Most parents have no other choice but public schools to send their kids to, and the public education establishment knows it and wants to keep it that way.

And that's the teachers fault? If parents had such a huge problem with it, maybe they should try homeschooling.

How else could they continue to do a mediocre job, work 33-35 weeks a year, and have high job security until they can start collecting those PERS checks?

Again, the fact that you keep quoting "33-35" weeks a year shows your ignorance. You fail to mention inservice days, the fact that teachers are there before the students start each year and leave after the students have already left.

Not to mention the time they have to spend grading papers and all that stuff at home. You really think they have enough time in their day's at school to grade 200+ papers of homework a day?

The point is, teachers work much more than you are willing to give them credit for which shows an obivous agenda on your part.

People want better education but do not want to pay for it. I'm sure your one of those people who buys a dollar cheeseburger and is upset when it tastes like garbage.
 
Well, the maintenance guy at the apartments where my son lives is an illegal immigrant, and speaks a "little" English. He told my son that he makes $14 per hour and gets a "free" apartment off the books, he's on call for emergency's, and is paid for 50 hours per week, at $14 per hour = $700 a week, plus $560 a month free rent = about $43,120 per year, he's unmarried but claims 12 dependents so pays no taxes, claims all his dependents are in his native country. Now compare that to what we pay the people who teach our kids...............:s0001:

So an "illegal immigrant" files a w4 and claims 12 dependants? I cant remember the last time I heard of an employer hiring an illegal on the books let alone filing tax forms. If the illegals are filing tax returns they must have a SS# so why is he an illegal getting paid under the table?:huh:
 
So an "illegal immigrant" files a w4 and claims 12 dependants? I cant remember the last time I heard of an employer hiring an illegal on the books let alone filing tax forms. If the illegals are filing tax returns they must have a SS# so why is he an illegal getting paid under the table?:huh:

I really don't give a crap what you remember, This is at The mallard landing apts. in Salem. This guy has several SS numbers, as do most of the maintenance staff the owner employs, they take out SS and FICA out of his pay check, and I repeat NO TAXES, and gets a free apartment off the books, the complex owner is a Portland lawyer who is a advocate for illegals, and owns several apt complexes in Salem, Eugene, and Portland, and is the same nationality as the illegal. About 6 months ago one of his employees was arrested for beating his wife, drunk driving and no DL, this being a sanctuary state he was given a free trip home to visit his relatives and was back 3 weeks later with new ID and SS numbers living with his wife, and working at the complex...Wake up and smell the roses this happens all the time in Oregon, how friggin' naive of you............:s0112:
 
Totally inapplicable scenario there, but no I did not. Some distributors tried to pass on price increases and lost a bunch of business to those that did not. Sysco made out like a bandit because of it. Drivers are the one that suffered the most.


So what kind of business do you have?

jj
 
from bugeye:

Socialism is when the people and the government take over private enterprise in order to equalize the distribution of wealth. Since the reverse of that wealth distribution is happening in the US, we are heading toward the state where the goverment and private enterprise cooperate and command the people, it's called fascism, and that is more the direction we we are heading in.


not quite. Socialism is when the government owns and controls the means of production, and distributes the proceeds as IT sees fit.

fascism is when the people own the means of production, but the government controls it and the distribution of the proceeds.....


Proceeds can be in the form of goods, services, or cash.

Bottom line, though, Bugeye, you are right... NEITHER is what we signed up for.

Tea party anyone? That was the response of the Colonists to England's attempts to turn fascist. 'One more "definition" I'll toss into the pot:

tyranny is when those in power rule on the basis of their power and strength. The original construction of our government is that the power devolves from the people, and returns to govern them as THEY see fit.

Now tell me, which of these two patterns is closer to our present reality?

It was the TYRANNY of the British Crown and Parliament the colonists threw off.
can we do it again? WILL we do it again?

Since Socialism was defined in Marx as the transition state to communism equalizing the distribution of wealth was a requirement. Of course, we have democratic socialisms all over Europe and they would fit into your definition. Idea was not to give a lecture on Socialism, just to show that ain't what is happening here.

Your definition of fascism is wrong, where did you get that I know of no example in the entire history of the world that fits your description. For example, Franco's Spain, Hitler's Germany, or fascist Italy were nothing like that, the people didn't own the means of production? This kind of clouding of the meaning of these terms is Beckian in nature, and based on propagating confusion.

The new tea party people are just a corporate plot, as a great man once said about them, "The real Boston Tea Party was not brought to you by the East India Company".

I don't see much Tyranny going on in our current politics, just a highly compromised, corporate dominated, system lead by a Moderate Republican admin, who is fighting uphill battles trying to make tiny, and inadequate, populist reforms. The tyranny that is the most dreadful is the state of mind of most of the posters on this web site. There is nothing more tyrannical than the mind of someone who knows nothing but the lies that some two bit pundit was well paid to feed them, and then acts as if this information is absolute truth. IMHO, that fascist state of mind is a necessary prerequisite for real political tyranny. Lets face it a bunch of factless dittoheads, who always agree with each other is the fertilizer required to grow a tyranny.
 
Since Socialism was defined in Marx as the transition state to communism equalizing the distribution of wealth was a requirement. Of course, we have democratic socialisms all over Europe and they would fit into your definition. Idea was not to give a lecture on Socialism, just to show that ain't what is happening here.

Your definition of fascism is wrong, where did you get that I know of no example in the entire history of the world that fits your description. For example, Franco's Spain, Hitler's Germany, or fascist Italy were nothing like that, the people didn't own the means of production? This kind of clouding of the meanin of these terms is Beckian in nature, and based on propagating confusion.

The new tea party people are just a corporate plot, as a great man once said about them, "The real Boston Tea Party was not brought to you by the East India Company".

I don't see much Tyranny going on in our current politics, just a highly compromised, corporate dominated, system lead by a Moderate Republican admin, who is fighting uphill battles trying to make tiny, and inadequate, populist reforms. The tyranny that is the most dreadful is the state of mind of most of the posters on this web site. There is nothing more tyrannical than the mind of someone who knows nothing but the lies that some two bit pundit was well paid to feed them, and then acts as if this information is absolute truth. INHO, that fascist state of mind is a necessary prerequisite for real political tyranny. Lets face it a bunch of factless dittoheads, who always agree with each other is the fertilizer required to grow a tyranny.


:s0112::s0112::s0112: It's very obviouse that you haven't been able to point out any real difference between one side or the other and where you fit in.You don't like the truth of others so you go find your own. This isn't bringing facts to the discussion. If you want to make points then show us the direction you think we should all go.

Are you for or against the constitution?

Do you want socialism?

jj
 
If Eastern Oregon were a state, it would be one of the poorest in the country. Big-city taxpayers have been subsidizing it for years.

You're kidding, right? Years ago I used to be an auditor for one of the biggest, oldest banks in Oregon. The richest branches per capita, out of more than 100 branches statewide were all in E. Oregon.

The branch in tiny Moro County had an average balance of more that $1 million just in checking accounts!! Can you comprehend that? You have just 300 checking accounts and there's more than $300 million dollars in them!! That's including the ones that have just $200 in them!!

The average balance in all bank accounts in E. Oregon is far higher than Portland which is full of the welfare and crack-head types. Portland is also full of common working people.

Who do you think my wife's family, which owns a 4,000 acre wheat and cattle ranch (free and clear) in E. Oregon subsidizes, anyway?

Do you think some junior public defender who makes a lousy $100k per year "subsidizes" those E. Oregon ranchers? Don't you realize that there are doctors and lawyers and owners of McDonald's franchises etc. in all of those E. Oregon towns too?

Man, I've been reading your posts and am tired of you being so full of yourself. No matter how successful you may become as a lawyer, you'll never have, free and clear, as nice a home and land as my wife and I have down here in the Rogue Valley. I doubt that you'll ever make as much money as my WIFE does, and that's no joke.

30 years from now it may finally dawn on you that you're just one more person trying to negotiate a way through this life. In fact 30 years from now there may be no United States of America as we know it with the opportunities which exist now. We're too busy trying to give it away.

I recommend some humility and thankfulness for what the founders of this nation gave us which makes it possible for you to even be doing what you're doing now. This is a great country, has been a great country, but it won't stay that way if we stay on the road we're on. We will revert to a skeleton just as every other socialized country has done.
 
You're kidding, right? Years ago I used to be an auditor for one of the biggest, oldest banks in Oregon. The richest branches per capita, out of more than 100 branches statewide were all in E. Oregon.

The branch in tiny Moro County had an average balance of more that $1 million just in checking accounts!! Can you comprehend that? You have just 300 checking accounts and there's more than $300 million dollars in them!! That's including the ones that have just $200 in them!!

The average balance in all bank accounts in E. Oregon is far higher than Portland which is full of the welfare and crack-head types. Portland is also full of common working people.

Who do you think my wife's family, which owns a 4,000 acre wheat and cattle ranch (free and clear) in E. Oregon subsidizes, anyway?

Do you think some junior public defender who makes a lousy $100k per year "subsidizes" those E. Oregon ranchers? Don't you realize that there are doctors and lawyers and owners of McDonald's franchises etc. in all of those E. Oregon towns too?

Man, I've been reading your posts and am tired of you being so full of yourself. No matter how successful you may become as a lawyer, you'll never have, free and clear, as nice a home and land as my wife and I have down here in the Rogue Valley. I doubt that you'll ever make as much money as my WIFE does, and that's no joke.

30 years from now it may finally dawn on you that you're just one more person trying to negotiate a way through this life. In fact 30 years from now there may be no United States of America as we know it with the opportunities which exist now. We're too busy trying to give it away.

I recommend some humility and thankfulness for what the founders of this nation gave us which makes it possible for you to even be doing what you're doing now. This is a great country, has been a great country, but it won't stay that way if we stay on the road we're on. We will revert to a skeleton just as every other socialized country has done.

Obviously Eastern Oregon has plenty of wealthy, successful people - and I applaud the hard work that you and your family have obviously done to get what you have - but it's also the poorest part of the state:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_locations_by_per_capita_income

As far as negotiating my way through life, what in God's name do you think I've been trying to do for the last ~14 years I've been on my own? I haven't been collecting welfare, that's for sure...

I'm very thankful for all of the great things this country offers.

Your personal attacks don't bother me at all. If you think it's arrogant for me to share my personal ambitions, or to have opinions that differ from the norm on here, it's your problem - not mine.

And as a public defender, I won't be making anything near 100k, either - more like 45k, working 12 hour days w/o overtime, for a private agency (no fancy state benefits...)
 
You're kidding, right? Years ago I used to be an auditor for one of the biggest, oldest banks in Oregon. The richest branches per capita, out of more than 100 branches statewide were all in E. Oregon.

The branch in tiny Moro County had an average balance of more that $1 million just in checking accounts!! Can you comprehend that? You have just 300 checking accounts and there's more than $300 million dollars in them!! That's including the ones that have just $200 in them!!

The average balance in all bank accounts in E. Oregon is far higher than Portland which is full of the welfare and crack-head types. Portland is also full of common working people.

Who do you think my wife's family, which owns a 4,000 acre wheat and cattle ranch (free and clear) in E. Oregon subsidizes, anyway?

Do you think some junior public defender who makes a lousy $100k per year "subsidizes" those E. Oregon ranchers? Don't you realize that there are doctors and lawyers and owners of McDonald's franchises etc. in all of those E. Oregon towns too?

Man, I've been reading your posts and am tired of you being so full of yourself. No matter how successful you may become as a lawyer, you'll never have, free and clear, as nice a home and land as my wife and I have down here in the Rogue Valley. I doubt that you'll ever make as much money as my WIFE does, and that's no joke.

30 years from now it may finally dawn on you that you're just one more person trying to negotiate a way through this life. In fact 30 years from now there may be no United States of America as we know it with the opportunities which exist now. We're too busy trying to give it away.

I recommend some humility and thankfulness for what the founders of this nation gave us which makes it possible for you to even be doing what you're doing now. This is a great country, has been a great country, but it won't stay that way if we stay on the road we're on. We will revert to a skeleton just as every other socialized country has done.

+1 :s0155:
 
Obviously Eastern Oregon has plenty of wealthy, successful people - and I applaud the hard work that you and your family have obviously done to get what you have - but it's also the poorest part of the state:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_locations_by_per_capita_income

As far as negotiating my way through life, what in God's name do you think I've been trying to do for the last ~14 years I've been on my own? I haven't been collecting welfare, that's for sure...

I'm very thankful for all of the great things this country offers.

Your personal attacks don't bother me at all. If you think it's arrogant for me to share my personal ambitions, or to have opinions that differ from the norm on here, it's your problem - not mine.

You haven't been negotiating your own way through life. You've been subsidized at every step by those who came before you, and by the taxpayers who paid for, and helped pay for your education. All of the opportunities you have are provided by those who came before you, and by those who pay taxes now.

If this country were like most countries, there wouldn't even be a demand for lawyers. If we go bust, and we may, lawyers will be the first to be out of work. Lawyers are a luxury to people who are hungry. Courts need working taxpayers to support them and so do police.

During the Great Depression, my Dad tells me that the state of Florida had to terminate all of its State Police, and that his town had to terminate all of its police. He tells me that the only law around was the sheriff, but there were no deputies. He tells me that his town of Palatka had to close its jail.

In those days there were no public defenders and it's a good thing because they couldn't have paid them.

Public defenders are a luxury only recently possible because of the wealth of this nation, which was created by free enterprise. Believe me, if we have another depression, a lot of things will change overnight and you will be like a deer in the headlights.
 

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