And so it begins !!

[PMKN_PI]

I'm not that young, I'm 30 years old and I've been working (primarily for private companies, but also a couple of years for the government) since I was 16. I'm in law school, plan to start my career as a public defender, and then work as a trial lawyer either for myself or for a small private firm. At some point in my career, hopefully sooner rather than later, I'll be subject to the higher income taxes I voted for. And I'm fine with that.

Shocker. A lawyer. And a publically funded one at that. I rest my goddamn case.


By the way, heres the page will all of SEIU's contact info. Flood em.

<broken link removed>

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

If Eastern Oregon were a state, it would be one of the poorest in the country. Big-city taxpayers have been subsidizing it for years.

I hate to break it to Eastern Oregon, but the vast majority of people affected by this tax will be out of state companies and the residents that are affected will primarily be residents of Multnomah/Washington Counties.

I am affected by this tax. My tax bracket went up 1.3 percent. That does not affect me much in my current bracket but it might if I start doing extremely well...and if I do I will be glad to being doing so well and will easily be able to afford the increase.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I will ask again...has anyone stopped to do the math on the original claim made in the OP?

 

[Trlsmn]

We (businesses) don't pay taxes? Wow, I am glad you just told me that. Here I was about to send in this coupon with my tax payment to the state on Monday. I am so glad to hear I do not need to send it now.

That's why I don't argue with you anymore Dave, between Obama's failed promises and your experiencing what it's like for the small business owner in Oregon it's just a matter of time before you join the Darkside of the force!

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Glad to see someone gets it!

He doesn't get anything. That is a nonsensical formula. It has no mathematic basis. It is like saying if my business lost a $2,000,000 lawsuit that it just cost each state resident $1.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

That's why I don't argue with you anymore Dave, between Obama's failed promises and your experiencing what it's like for the small business owner in Oregon it's just a matter of time before you join the Darkside of the force!

What do you mean "matter of time.?"

 

[Just Jim]

Business either passes on the cost of doing business or goes out of business. Are any of you guys still in business and loseing money? If you are it isn't a business but a hobby. Keep watching the commercial property, you guys can buy it soon for pennies on the dollar.

jj

 

[Just Jim]

So playboy are you saying you just eat the higher cost of doing business every time it goes up?? Where does your money come from, customers? do they pay higher prices for you to stay in business? Are you going to eat all the taxes on last year and not pass it on?

jj

 

[Trlsmn]

He doesn't get anything. That is a nonsensical formula. It has no mathematic basis. It is like saying if my business lost a $2,000,000 lawsuit that it just cost each state resident $1.

You have that equation backwards: If you won a 2 million dollar lawsuit from the state each resident pays $1.
But that could never happen as there is a legal $ limit against judgments for liabilities the state owes BTW.

His point is the costs will be passed onto the consumer as they always are and we will pay the price as we always do. He did the math correctly he just used a different equation, his equation was likely the total projected revenue divided by the total number of people in the tax base.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

So playboy are you saying you just eat the higher cost of doing business every time it goes up?? Where does your money come from, customers? do they pay higher prices for you to stay in business? Are you going to eat all the taxes on last year and not pass it on?

jj

I do not raise my prices because of a 1.3% increase on my net taxable income. Any half way decent business person knows that. Any price increase is noticed by customers and has an effect of losing you a few each time you do it. Such a small tax increase would not be worth risking losing customers over. I would lose money by raising prices on those margins.

You can only raise prices to what the market will bear in any business before you have to start experiencing reduced profits. In the case of the VAST MAJORITY of businesses affected by this law that point has already been reached since they are already operating on minimal manpower to achieve maximum profit. They cannot pass the cost along any longer and maintain a stable footing in the market. Employees are already overloaded and costs are already set at maximum potential. The only thing they can lose is over inflated profits or go out of business.

 

[zeezee]

Socialism in our life time and the dumming of it's citizens through socialist educational programs. You all just keep voting for this here bull crap and cry when your taxes go through the roof. Admit it, the United States of America is a socialist nation. The 10th plank of the communist manifesto says. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
Americans are being taxed to support what we call 'public' schools, but are actually "government force-tax-funded schools" (union run). Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based "Education". (They are building the new democratic/socialist/communist party with your tax dollars) These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like "majority rules", and "pay your fair share". WHERE are the words "fair share" in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is "fair share" even suggested !! The philosophical concept of "fair share" comes from the Communist maxim, "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. ... America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC ... Teaching ourselves and others how to "fish" to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be "needy"... Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.

 

[Just Jim]

While the constitution is no longer in style and has been comepletly ignored and the socialist have spent our kids future it should get interesting when the bills come due. These same progressives gave us prohibition, the progressive income tax, social security tax and the fed. All were socialism and against the constitution. What are they trying to shove down our throats now, socialized medicine that is against the constitution.

jj

 

[zeezee]

While the constitution is no longer in style and has been comepletly ignored and the socialist have spent our kids future it should get interesting when the bills come due. These same progressives gave us prohibition, the progressive income tax, social security tax and the fed. All were socialism and against the constitution. What are they trying to shove down our throats now, socialized medicine that is against the constitution. jj

The Constitution means nothing to these people, read the 10 planks of the communist manifesto, we are a socialist nation and without a bloody revolution there is no way to undo 100 some years of socialism! The choice is OURS, either join them or . . .

 

[Just Jim]

I do not raise my prices because of a 1.3% increase on my net taxable income. Any half way decent business person knows that. Any price increase is noticed by customers and has an effect of losing you a few each time you do it. Such a small tax increase would not be worth risking losing customers over. I would lose money by raising prices on those margins.

You can only raise prices to what the market will bear in any business before you have to start experiencing reduced profits. In the case of the VAST MAJORITY of businesses affected by this law that point has already been reached since they are already operating on minimal manpower to achieve maximum profit. They cannot pass the cost along any longer and maintain a stable footing in the market. Employees are already overloaded and costs are already set at maximum potential. The only thing they can lose is over inflated profits or go out of business.

So last year when fuel was up to $5 a gallon you didn't pass that cost along. The value of the dollar sinks constantly and raises your product prices and you don't pass that on? The minimum wage went up and you don't pass that on? I guess you are right, another supposed 1.3 percent aint going to mean much when you are on your way out.

Might want to move the business closer to government offices as they will have your money


jj

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

So last year when fuel was up to $5 a gallon you didn't pass that cost along. The value of the dollar sinks constantly and raises your product prices and you don't pass that on? The minimum wage went up and you don't pass that on? I guess you are right, another supposed 1.3 percent aint going to mean much when you are on your way out.

Might want to move the business closer to government offices as they will have your money


jj

Totally inapplicable scenario there, but no I did not. Some distributors tried to pass on price increases and lost a bunch of business to those that did not. Sysco made out like a bandit because of it. Drivers are the one that suffered the most.

 

[cbdolphin]

Battle Ground's levy just endend and now they have the other one set to be voted on next month. Here is the break down for the next three years if it passes:

2011-21 million
2012-22 million
2013-23 million

They say this is all for the kids... Well I have to kids in the district and I did not see anything change from the last one. What I did notice is the pay raises for the teachers and staff. I have realized this is the only reason for these levies. The unions and teaches think they deserve mass raises and better health care plans.

I wish the private sector would take over and make these positions performance based and then we would see a change. California voted it down before the ink was dry. If it were performaced based many teachers would be gone. They should sit back and realize they have a great job and great benefits but they keep wanting more......

I'm sorry but teachers are VASTLY underpaid compared to the time they put into schooling.

I know teachers that have put in 15 years with a masters degree and is making around 50 thousand a year.

They are undermanned and the classes are just getting larger and larger. Their workload is getting bigger and harder, they deserve pay increases IMO.

Public education isn't this cheesecake situation where kids come to school, sit down, pay attention like people seem to think.

It's not the teachers. It's the admin/principals who are bringin in over 100k a year and the football coaches who get 65 grand a year and only teach two classes a day, one trimester a year.

Do I agree with the tax increases? **** no but complaining about the teachers getting a pay raise and benefits is laughable at best.

Do you not realize in some distracts, teachers have actually had their salaries FROZEN and will NEVER count towards their pay, which is based on teaching experience?

I'd like to see some of the people who piss and moan about teachers wanting a pay raise, go in and sit in a classroom with butthole kids 8 hours a day for 50k a year.

It's also ridiculous to think performance pay is an actual answer. Have you even stepped foot into highschool recently? You really think their pay deserves to be dockts because of parenting faults?

Is it their fault when parents don't care about their kids education enough to make them go to school thus resulting in bad grades? Is it their fault that the funding keeps getting cut and they are expected to actually teach in a 50 minute class with 40-60 kids in it?

I dare you to try and teach in a small room that is packed with horny, testostorone filled males that are trying to constantly impress the opposite sex.

Public education isn't education anymore, it's daycare.

Your expectations are absolutely ridiculous.

 

[bugeye]

So seeing as how I have no children, why should I have to pay for schools?

Because Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Did you get a public education yourself? As someone who has children, thanks buddy, they are great kids, very smart, your dough wasn't wasted on them.

By the way I opposed the war in Iraq 4 months before it started, do I still have to pay for it?

 

[bugeye]

The Constitution means nothing to these people, read the 10 planks of the communist manifesto, we are a socialist nation and without a bloody revolution there is no way to undo 100 some years of socialism! The choice is OURS, either join them or . . .

Really? Socialism is when the people and the government take over private enterprise in order to equalize the distribution of wealth. Since the reverse of that wealth distribution is happening in the US, we are heading toward the state where the goverment and private enterprise cooperate and command the people, it's called fascism, and that is more the direction we we are heading in.

But heading too much either way is not good for America, balance is one of our best traditions, and it is what has let us last over 200 years.

 

[husker]

I'm sorry but teachers are VASTLY underpaid compared to the time they put into schooling.

I know teachers that have put in 15 years with a masters degree and is making around 50 thousand a year.

50 thousand a year. No that is 9 months. Wait, with all the paid holidays that is more like 8 months, maybe 7. They get teachers days and how manay days off for cristmas break and spring break. So how many days out of a 365 day year do they work? Then you have pers and health insurance.
I would think they do well for what they do. If they are not a good teacher that is ok because they have the union to back them.

 

[cbdolphin]

But with summer and winter vacation and every Federal holiday off, teachers don't work a full year. Remember all the commotion about Oregon having one of the shortest school years (165 days) in the country, with Doonesbury making fun of Oregon's short school year?

165 / 5 working days a week = 33 work weeks a year.

$50,000 / 33 = $1515 a week

Now most people get two weeks vacation and maybe 5 holidays off a year. So $1515 a week x a normal 49 week work year = $74,242

So if a "$50,000 a year" teacher earning $1515 per week were to work a full 49 week work year like the rest of us, they would be making $74,242 a year, nothing to cry about. The reason they make "only" whatever they make is because they work so many fewer days than the rest of us. And, they have the opportunity to earn extra income during all that time off, and many do. And then there is that juicy PERS check every month when they retire.

No tears over here for "underpaid" teachers.

You do realize that just because the students aren't in class, the teachers are not there?

Inservice days do not go towards how many days a child is in school but the teachers sure as **** are there. Not to mention the fact that they start summer later and it ends much sooner than the kids breaks end.

You cannot take that "165" days the kids are in school and run with it. I believe teachers are working 200 + change days a year. Even if it was 200 even you'd be looking at 60ish grand a year.

Not so much for someone with 15+ years on the job with a masters degree.

The teachers have to be teaching around 12-15 years I believe to hit that 50 thousand a year mark. Majority of teachers ARE NOT making that much cash. Actually, in my district they have been trying to get the teachers with tenure to retire so they can go with the cheaper teachers.

Do the math for a first year teacher who is making around 30,000 a year (starting wage). Not so much when you consider the fact that they now have a Masters degree.

Just for reference, the newbies are would be making around 36,000 a year if working the 49 weeks a year you references.

I've always maintained that teachers, cops and firefighters make WAY TOO LITTLE while the admin/chiefs/principals etc are reaping the benefits.