And so it begins !!

[matt_w]

Education is always the first thing the state cuts in hard times. It's the only way they can get more taxes passed. No one would vote this crap in if it was "for the new Max line", it's always "for the kids".

 

[ZachS]

I'm happy to say where I stand. I proudly voted yes, my DA friend in Portland would probably have been laid off otherwise (and Multnomah county's laid off enough DAs already).


I'm sorry to hear about this restaurant... But I wonder how many businesses would have closed w/o the personal spending of the government workers whose jobs were saved. Even when they're being spent inefficiently, it's not like state tax dollars are being thrown into a black hole somewhere.

Federal taxes, that's a different story..

 

[Trlsmn]

Battle Ground's levy just endend and now they have the other one set to be voted on next month. Here is the break down for the next three years if it passes:

2011-21 million
2012-22 million
2013-23 million

They say this is all for the kids... Well I have to kids in the district and I did not see anything change from the last one. What I did notice is the pay raises for the teachers and staff. I have realized this is the only reason for these levies. The unions and teaches think they deserve mass raises and better health care plans.

Sure it's going to the kids! the government employees kids, not mine!

I wish the private sector would take over and make these positions performance based and then we would see a change. California voted it down before the ink was dry. If it were performaced based many teachers would be gone. They should sit back and realize they have a great job and great benefits but they keep wanting more......

Exactly!

 

[Trlsmn]

I'm happy to say where I stand. I proudly voted yes, my DA friend in Portland would probably have been laid off otherwise (and Multnomah county's laid off enough DAs already).


I'm sorry to hear about this restaurant... But I wonder how many businesses would have closed w/o the personal spending of the government workers whose jobs were saved. Even when they're being spent inefficiently, it's not like state tax dollars are being thrown into a black hole somewhere.

Federal taxes, that's a different story..

The difference between the government sector and the private sector is the need to pay it's own way and make a profit, the private sector dies through inefficiency and waist whereas the government thrives through inefficiency and waist!

If I give someone a plane ticket to Vegas and $10,000 what will his spending habits be like? If he goes to Vegas on his own dime what will his spending habits be like?

 

[Scott]

I'm happy to say where I stand. I proudly voted yes, my DA friend in Portland would probably have been laid off otherwise (and Multnomah county's laid off enough DAs already).


I'm sorry to hear about this restaurant... But I wonder how many businesses would have closed w/o the personal spending of the government workers whose jobs were saved. Even when they're being spent inefficiently, it's not like state tax dollars are being thrown into a black hole somewhere.

Federal taxes, that's a different story..

I always wondered why people don't get something. Lets say your friend who was able to keep his job(I am glad he did by the way) ends up in this same situation next year. What I see is the state giving money to keep employees for the year. What happens when the money runs out? Do they raise taxes again to him or her? That is what is happening with the stimulis, this money is not going to keep coming and is going to run out sooner than later. So what happens then?

Giving extra money to keep a few employees is just a bandaid on a huge problem.

 

[Scott]

This is a good taxperys dream.

By Bob Unruh
© 2010 WorldNetDaily



Part of the tab for alcoholic drinks on a congressional trip arranged by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
It reads like a dream order for a wild frat party: Maker's Mark whiskey, Courvoisier cognac, Johnny Walker Red scotch, Grey Goose vodka, E&J brandy, Bailey's Irish Crème, Bacardi Light rum, Jim Beam whiskey, Beefeater gin, Dewars scotch, Bombay Sapphire gin, Jack Daniels whiskey ... and Corona beer.

But that single receipt makes up just part of the more than $101,000 taxpayers paid for "in-flight services" – including food and liquor, for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's trips on Air Force jets over the last two years. That's almost $1,000 per week.

Fed up with the condescending clowns in Congress? Send them a "pink slip!"

Documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by Judicial Watch, which investigates and prosecutes government corruption, show Pelosi incurred expenses of some $2.1 million for her use of Air Force jets for travel over that time.

"Speaker Pelosi has a history of wasting taxpayer funds with her boorish demands for military travel," Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said today. "And these documents suggest the Speaker's congressional delegations are more about partying than anything else."

Pelosi, D-Calif., recently joined President Obama on a Judicial Watch list of Top 10 corrupt politicians because of her "sense of entitlement," the group said.

"Politicians believe laws and rules (even the U.S. Constitution) apply to the rest of us but not to them. Case in point: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her excessive and boorish demands for military travel. Judicial Watch obtained documents from the Pentagon in 2008 that suggest Pelosi has been treating the Air Force like her own personal airline," the evaluation said.

 

[bugeye]

I just reviewed the Measure 67 potential tax increases for small corporations, I, of course, don't know that total sales or listed taxable profits for this resturant, but if indeed this tiny increase in minimum tax is going to put them under they really had to be on the brink of going under anyway. We are talking about a company with 1.1 million dollars of sales paying a minimum tax of $1000, and only if that minimum is less than the amount they would have paid on profits anyway. Sole proprieters are not included in Measure 67 only C type corporations.

In short, I think you are hearing a lot of knee jerk reactions from some business owners who really don't understand how little is involved. I bet they could raise the thousand bucks with a tax tip jar by the register, sheesh.

I voted for, small corporations are getting away with not paying their fair share of taxes, S corporations are the worst as they seem to never get audited, and tax fraud is rampant in just about every business. This minimum is tiny!

 

[M.Link]

I havnt voted for any kind of tax increase or democrate/left wing driven thing since I turned 18! Maybe you shouldn't assume that you know how everybody voted. This is the last place you would find people like that. I love how you act like you know what everone does. You must be a genius!

 

[ZachS]

The difference between the government sector and the private sector is the need to pay it's own way and make a profit, the private sector dies through inefficiency and waist whereas the government thrives through inefficiency and waist!

Sure, and everybody but the public employee unions and their stooges believes we should use use private-sector derived techniques to increase efficiency as much as possible. I know a lot of folks here believe that large government is anathema to the American way of life, but I believe it's part and parcel of life in a modern industrialized democracy. In such democracies, government thrives when it manages to display the best attributes of the citizens it represents - among them responsibility, compassion, thrift, accountability, and rationality.

The government as a whole is a long, long way from living up to this vision, but there are shining spots throughout - from the thousands small-town fire, police, and parks departments that are honestly and thriftily run all the way up to multi-billion dollar federal agencies that manage to outperform the private sector.

California's situation is showing that "starving the beast" can't possibly work, because there are so many fixed costs (pensions and employee health insurance are the big ones here, but Cali's "unique" system of government has left it with a budget almost entirely composed of constitutionally-mandated spending) that budget cuts will always result in state employee layoffs and service cuts that do immeasurable harm.

The solution is for political parties and politicians to quit all of their grandstanding, propagandizing, and pie-in-the-skie rhetoric and start doing the hard work (and stepping on the toes) required to change the way necessary public services are delivered.



Unfortunately, it ain't gonna happen...

 

[ZachS]

I always wondered why people don't get something. Lets say your friend who was able to keep his job(I am glad he did by the way) ends up in this same situation next year. What I see is the state giving money to keep employees for the year. What happens when the money runs out? Do they raise taxes again to him or her? That is what is happening with the stimulis, this money is not going to keep coming and is going to run out sooner than later. So what happens then?

Giving extra money to keep a few employees is just a bandaid on a huge problem.

The stimulus is basically the opposite of a tax increase... and yeah, there will be problems when it runs out.

This tax increase is permanent.

 

[deadeye]

Any taxes imposed at this time are not good whether they are a piddly amount or not. There are plenty of areas ESPECIALLY in the school system to make cuts. I don't see why the school teachers deserve any sort of a raise as many Oregonians have not seen raises either. I pay for a large portion of my health insurance and I have a 401k through work as well but you only get matched what is put in. Why should I pay for a teacher to retire on a larger amount in retirement than they get while actually teaching (if you can call it teaching)especially since they dont contribute. It has been too long since the state workers have been put in their place and told enough is enough.

I am so sick of hearing that we will have to cut state troopers, fire protection etc. we all need to just call their bluff and see what they can actually accomplish when forced to live on a respectable budget like the rest of us. I remember hearing things like the tobacco settlement funds going to pay for state incurred expenses for medical treatments of smoking related illnesses. That money went every where but there thanks to the gready Governor and the like. Doesnt suprise me either that Kulongousky/Kitshaber (one in the same) want to take the kicker too as they always need that rainy day fund ya know.

 

[Gunner3456]

I haven't been out much for about 6 weeks due to the flu and pneumonia. I got out today!!!

I stopped by to see a guy I know who owns some small lottery places - just real small bars with light food and lotto machines.

I asked him if the new law which prohibits smoking (as of Jan 1.) had affected his business. He said it had cut it exactly in half!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, considering the income the State of Oregon gets (or got) off those machines...

Another thing he told me was that the state increased its share of the winnings, decreasing his percentage he keeps. Still, the state is losing its butt on this deal. He is almost on his ear.

Now comes this new tax and yes, he's incorporated.

What we really need is a lot more government and a lot fewer businesses. NOT!!

 

[Chee-to]

The people that do vote for it are misguided. Just like 66 and 67, where do they really think that 700 million is really coming from? Everyday it seems like they keep voting to raise taxes on something or somebody but it all rolls downhill to the commom people.

But, the Sheeple believe, and have spoken !! Baaaaaaaa

 

[Cougfan2]

That picture is more than a little disturbing.

 

[bugeye]

The difference between the government sector and the private sector is the need to pay it's own way and make a profit, the private sector dies through inefficiency and waist whereas the government thrives through inefficiency and waist!

If I give someone a plane ticket to Vegas and $10,000 what will his spending habits be like? If he goes to Vegas on his own dime what will his spending habits be like?

OK, but there are some things that private enterprise is not very good at doing like say being the military, or enforcing the law, or fighting a war, or delivering a letter for less than 50 cents.

And in some cases private enterprise if absurdly less efficient expecially when the services performed are vital utilities. Take health care insurance for example, the typical left yap is that they private insurers consume 30% of the money going to them as overhead while the gov runs Medicare and Medicade on 3%. Now these figures are rather absurd as the gov programs benefit from other divisions of the gov that don't show up on the medicare budget, like the IRS who collects the dough, and of course the private insurers do pay a tiny amount in taxes (very darn little). However, it is easy to see that our private insurance approach to health care consumes at least an extra 12% of the costs of the system, while making it a nighmare for providers to bill. In addition the insurers don't do much to drive down the costs of provider services, except in the case where both parties are one, like Kaiser. So, if you want low cost health care you have to begin by dumping these private insurance companies. Of course that is impossible as they are connected, and throw many millions of this excess overhead at congress via lobbys.

And that is exactly why Obama had them over to tell them not to worry, that he is not a Socialist, that he is a good moderate Republican, and that he is going to let them continue to make their profits on the misery of the Public if they don't create a campaign to dump his health care reform plan.

So, this is why the US will continue to pay an every increasing $8000 per person for health care while the rest of the developed world can do it for $4000. And this system, at these costs, given the near constant 8% increases in premium costs per year, is far less sustainable than even social security.

The health care insurance reform bill, that might be doomed, isn't very good, too bad for us it is the best that had even a prayer of passing, and in its current state has the gov providing no additional insurance than it does right now.

America, a land of sacred cows who eat people.

 

[Scott]

I thought at first that the picture was a bunch of new born rats. Don't you love people who can't think for themselves. Just imagine if everbody did?

 

[Chee-to]

That picture is more than a little disturbing.

Not as disturbing as the passage of 66/67...........

 

[dobanion]

I would never vote for a socialist who would steal the hard work others produce.

That's my view of modern capitalism. Where I work the people who do most of the work, and the people who make all the money, are different people.

Do CEOs work 5000x as hard as the average citizen?

But...but..but...the schools needed the money! Won't someone please think of the children??!

Much of this debate is who should have to pay for what, and why it's their responsibility.

So seeing as how I have no children, why should I have to pay for schools?

 

[slingshot1943]

I thought baby mice or rats too.
I can't believe there are people who believe that anything run by government is run good. medicare is going bankrupt even though they force providers to accept far less from medicare than others pay.
I've never had any service from the public sector that measured up to what the average person seems to think is provided.

 

[Scott]

So seeing as how I have no children, why should I have to pay for schools?[/QUOTE]


Because Biden calls paying higher taxes a patriotic act!!!!!!!!