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An unexpected political shift? Or is it just me?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Vantage, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Vantage

    Vantage Pacific Standard Time Active Member

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    So... I'm reading all kinds of news online, and talking to people in real life.

    If you believe what many in the media say, then you'd think that everyone thinks Wayne La Pierre is off his rocker with his suggestion of armed security at schools.

    But everyone I talk to seems to agree. And so do some politicians. And if you think about it... it makes total sense. Actually makes me kinda mad that we haven't addressed this before. What do you own, that is worth more to you, than your kids? For me.. nothing. So why not protect them?


    Kids love cops. At least mine do.

    And it seems that people are having a "duh" reaction to this. We use guns to protect our money, our energy, our celebrities and our politicians... why aren't we protecting our kids?

    Yet.. the mainstream media is writing this off as "ridiculous", "insane" and "completely nuts".

    Maybe.. just maybe... this will be a moment where the people finally see the media for the liars and manipulators that they are and see the NRA as a sensible organization.

    And subsequently... gun owners as well.

    Combine that with soaring CCW applications and I see the tide shifting in our favor.

    I mean... this current situation is about as bad as it could get politically for the gun cause. If we make it through this... I don't see what else could derail us.
     
  2. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    Liberals and Unions will never want to use a gun to solve their gun violence strategy. They would have to remove that from the demoncrat platform.
     
  3. eldbillbo

    eldbillbo clackamas New world samurai and a redneck none the less Bronze Supporter

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    Good message needs to be spread to the non gun forums as well. They have snuck into our kitchen and planted doubts . start posting where they read .
     
  4. ShootFirst

    ShootFirst Southern Oregon Active Member

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    Ok I usually hate to do this kinda thing and hate when others do it, but playing the devils advocate here.


    I agree security at schools are A++ idea, however that being said :
    How do we ensure the police hired to protect the kids do not become yesterdays Truant Officers?
    For those that do not know what one is I do and as a kid they went around neighborhoods and found kids that
    were playing hooky. That was all fine and good but they became little Nazi-Wannabes and were removed.
    Truant Officers, were hired for a reason, as will be Security Officers. It would need to be clear they are here to protect and serve.
    If that sounds familiar, LE's are sworn to protect and serve too and we see where that goes.
    I can see if not handled right, allegations of sexual abuse, intimidation and lies. If these Security Officers are hired they need to be accountable for actions and clear cut and dry boundaries . People with power as you know are prone to corruption, it is the way of the world.
    Kids need to be protected, not victimized so I am for it just as long as it is done to protect kids not put law enforcement in school
    and in this matter the NRA failed at being clear to a weary public what was needed to make such a suggestion.
    He spent to much time being political then addressing his idea. But apart from my concerns it is not a bad idea and should deter.
     
  5. JackThompson

    JackThompson Valley of the Demons Well-Known Member

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    You know. When I saw Facebook light up with a bunch of posts of ex-military in uniform standing "Guard" in front of schools it worried me that someone is going to get the bright idea that having actual military personnel "Police" our schools is a gold idea. That cannot happen either.

    Military are not police, and have no place in the role on American soil.

    It definitely needs to be a civilian thing, and well regulated. It also made me nervous that someone involved with homeland security would be involved. The last thing we need is more TSA nazis and crotch gropers at our schools.

    I carry my concealed when I drop my children off and pick them up, and I don't want that infringed on.

    We need LESS gun free zones, not more TSA.
     
  6. yurik

    yurik Vancouver, WA New Member

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    The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by law enforcement: 14. The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by civilians: 2.5.

    1.Oregon: not a gun free zone. Shooter confronted by permit holder. Shooter commits suicide. Only a few casualties.

    2.Texas: not a gun free zone. Shooter killed immediately by off duty cop. Only a few casualties.

    3.Connecticut: Gun Free Zone. Shooters kills until the police arrive. Suicide. 26 dead.

    4.China. GUN FREE COUNTRY. A guy with a knife stabs 22 children.

    Last time in London I saw a big Police poster at Victoria tube station with a plea for any information on a 2 day old fatal knife stabbing there. That was in the one camera per four citizens nation. When I lived in Australia, ... don't get me started. This country is exceptional, let's keep it. In my case, there is nowhere else to run.
     
  7. TheHumungus

    TheHumungus Portland Active Member

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    The sky is not falling. Nothing is going to be banned. Read this: The AnarchAngel : Stupidity, Politics, and Math

    To believe there will be a new ban on guns, you must believe:

    1. The Republicans in the house are going to roll over without a fight and vote for a new ban.
    2. The Republicans in the senate are going to roll over without a fight and vote for a new ban.
    3. The NRA is going to roll over without a fight and support a new ban.
    4. That a handful of very loud extremist liberal fascists in the media and in government have the power to enact sweeping gun legislation.
    5. That the Supreme Court Heller Decision enshrining a citizens right to own personal firearms will be overturned.
    6. That legal gun owners/dealers/manufacturers are going to roll over without a fight and support a ban of their own products.
    7. That congress will want to shut down one of the few industries in this country that is actually providing some positive economic growth.
    8. That any legislation will survive the onslaught of legal challenges should it even make it out of committee for a vote, which it won't in the house because Republicans control the committees in the house.
    9. That manufacturers of guns, magazines, and ammo are all going to simultaneously close their businesses and stop producing their products.
    10. That 21 democrats up for re-election in in the senate 2014 are going to vote to ban guns.
    I could go on and on.....

    I honestly am astounded at how many people actually believe that the Government, if it wishes, could simply take away everyone's gun, and that it is going to happen tomorrow... Another testament to our poor public school educations. Our government can't walk and chew bubble gum. It would literally take thousands of new government employees, billions of additional dollars, and years just to collect the data on who owns guns in this country. And some people believe the government has the power to do this overnight... People give the government way too much credit. Heck, the post office, GM, and amtrak are just three small examples at how badly our government screws things up.

    Even if the Government wanted to restrict/ban/confiscate guns, there is that pesky thing called the Constitution that gets in their way. And until that is scrapped, and we are living in a dictatorship, then I have no worries about our gun rights being further restricted. I am happy for all the folks who sold things at a huge profit in the past week, but I am sad that so many people panicked because of press sensationalism, and made them spend way more money than they had to.

    Here is a tip. Don't watch or listen to the news. It is controlled by liberals. If you don't consume their product and expose yourself to their advertisers, they eventually go away. But I guess people are gluttons for punishment, because I continually see people complaining about something the heard or saw on TV. Liberal Fascists and anti-gun people control the news. Even Fox News has said some pretty uninformed and dumb things about guns. Just don't watch. There are plenty of trusted news sources on the net for you get your daily fix of news from.

    Also, to some people I say, re-read your high school government and economics text books. It may shed some light on how the world really works.
     
    Capn Jack, Misterbill, fd15k and 3 others like this.
  8. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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    And here are some stories to support that even in schools The president has already been set the media just does not tell us.

    Moonbattery » Solution to School Shootings Already Known
     
  9. fuhr52

    fuhr52 Lane County. Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The emotional frenzy that is being stirred by the progressive liberals and the main stream media is a powerful thing. You are correct the gun industry, legal gun owners and pro gun special interests won't take this laying down. There will be push back. The left will chip away at the edges over time. The low information public will see no big deal because it doesn't really effect them yet.
     
  10. Vantage

    Vantage Pacific Standard Time Active Member

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    I actually disagree with you a little here.

    Our military acts as security in embassies. And I did Shore Patrol in the service, and guarded parks and other buildings. I could see a one year rotation where you have School Security Duty.

    Doing it this way would actually prevent the the whole Truant Officer thing. If you're only there for a year, then you're not going to get involved in the politics of chasing down kids playing hookie.

    My vision of the whole security thing is that it's separate from the school staff. They don't discipline kids or interact with the kids at all. Their responsibility is the protection of the grounds.

    And I think just having the Uniform present creates a show of force deterrent. The effect would not be that they'd end up shooting the bad guys, the effect would be that there would just be less school shootings.
     
  11. PorkEatingCrusader

    PorkEatingCrusader Eagle Point, OR New Member

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    I agree that a gun ban of any sort will be difficult pass, however, we did have the Clinton Crime Bill that banned "assault weapons."
     
  12. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    It banned the sale of NEW "assault weapons" that were assembled. You could still buy the "evil feature" parts and place them on a "nuetured" specimen...
     
  13. WhyteCheddar

    WhyteCheddar East of Moscow by the Willamette Well-Known Member

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    Did you happen to notice that this thread isn't about gun confiscation?
    Troll elsewhere.
     
  14. WhyteCheddar

    WhyteCheddar East of Moscow by the Willamette Well-Known Member

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    Just an FYI,
    I am confident that the anti 2A have infiltrated this forum.
    They are posting as gun owners as well as observing our discussions.
    I suggest we keep that in mind as we interact here. And I suggest we join their forums as well.
    Turn about is fair play as it were.
     
  15. Synnergy

    Synnergy Oregon Member

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    I like the idea of police at every school. Let's keep in mind these are state police and not federal employees.

    HOWEVER, I would encourage as many teachers as possible to CC. I feel an intense obligation to protect my family, as well as my employees (let alone a bunch of children if I were a teacher!)

    I know there are lots of other Men out there that feel the same way

    Protecting that which has been entrusted to us-THIS is as basic as it gets.

    Rise up and meet the competition...if they have guns, then WE need to have guns.

    2nd Amendment at its core.

    Together we stand.
     
  16. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Were you actually issued live ammo and orders to shoot if necessary?
     
  17. Vantage

    Vantage Pacific Standard Time Active Member

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    I wasn't.

    But I don't think it would be of the spectrum. And I don't think any service member would have a problem firing on someone to save a school full of kids.
     
  18. yurik

    yurik Vancouver, WA New Member

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    What really shocks me as a relative newcomer to this great nation is that our national response is quite so amateurish. I do not know why is that, the bad tongue says it is because Americans had it too well for too long, so they simply degenerated. The 9/11 attack was performed by amateurs, and we respond like ones with all the Motherland Security, TSA and all that. In their eyes they are professionals, I guess.
    Israel has put guns in its schools since 2008 Mercaz HaRav massacre and has all but stopped its school shootings
     
  19. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

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    The NRA's proposal for armed security at schools does not necessarily mean military, police, or even hired security guards. It could be as simple as training teachers, custodians, principals, volunteer parents, etc....

    I don't think it would be cost effective to HIRE new people to do this function. There are already people in the schools who are dedicated to the student's well-being. They merely need some training and some rule changes to allow them to be armed and ready in case of attack.

    I don't think we really want to reinforce the idea that only the police and the military should be our armed protectors...
     
  20. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    That was really uncalled for.