JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
Thank You Provinical.

First let me state right off the bat , that if you can carry and feel confident that you can and have the willingness to use your handgun safely and effectively, then carry everyday and every where.

I would carry in my school if I could.
That being said , I do have some concerns about carrying in schools.
It seems to me that most school shooters are current students or former students.
What needs to be thought of or talked about is that the staff member might be shooting a kid. One that they may know , or that their students know , in front of other students.
Another thing to consider is the mere fact that you know the kid could sway you into a wrong decision.
This not a case of shooting a strange home intruder or a store robber or even a terrorist.
I am talking about someone you might know or have taught.

I teach in Special Education at our high school.
My students already have special needs and issues that need to be worked with and through. I worry about the trauma they will have if they see me shoot someone.
Or the trauma a teacher will have over having to shoot a kid.
I understand that a lifetime of trauma and the counseling that goes with it , is better than being dead.
I 'm just saying think about what you are asking these teachers and staff members to do if they have to.

Having been through combat , I know what I am willing and capable of doing . Which goes along with my statement in my first post of "doing everything I can and pull any dirty trick to get my kids home safe."

Again I am not against carrying anywhere .
As I said I would if I could.
I'm just asking that those that do carry or those that ask others to carry in school , consider what I have said.
Andy
 
Last Edited:
Thank You Provinical.

First let me state right off the bat , that if you can carry and feel confident that you can and have the willingness to use your handgun safely and effectively, then carry everyday and every where.

I would carry in my school if I could.
That being said , I do have some concerns about carrying in schools.
It seems to me that most school shooters are current students or former students.
What needs to be thought of or talked about is that the staff member might be shooting a kid. One that they may know , or that their students know , in front of other students.
Another thing to consider is the mere fact that you know the kid could sway you into a wrong decision.
This not a case of shooting a strange home intruder or a store robber or even a terrorist.
I am talking about someone you might know or have taught.

I teach in Special Education at our high school.
My students already have special needs and issues that need to be worked with and through. I worry about the trauma they will have if they see me shoot someone.
Or the trauma a teacher will have over having to shoot a kid.
I understand that a lifetime of trauma and the counseling that goes with it , is better than being dead.
I 'm just saying think about what you are asking these teachers and staff members to do if they have to.

Having been through combat , I know what I am willing and capable of doing . Which goes along with my statement in my first post of "doing everything I can and pull any dirty trick to get my kids home safe."

Again I am not against carrying anywhere .
As I said I would if I could.
I'm just asking that those that do carry or those that ask others to carry in school , consider what I have said.
Andy
WOW,now there's some things I didn't think of. I can just imagine the hesitation a teacher would have when drawn down on one of their students. And the look on the other students faces after the shooting. I imagine it would cause a teacher to transfer or resign
Good points Andy.
 
Thanks mjbskwim,
Those thoughts / points have been on my mind ever since it was suggested that teachers be armed.
I was and am a bit worried about how those thoughts are received. But then I teach at a school and often those that throw that idea out, do not.
Andy
 
So I have several thoughts that I will try to articulate, I am sorry if this gets too long.

First many if not most CHL holders will not be able to respond if the situation requires. The vast majority are poorly trained and don't practice enough and this will include many members here. Most people let their ego say things that the mind and body won't backup. Now I implore people to know their rights as it relates to the 2nd amendment but also understand the responsibility that goes with exercising that right.

Presented with a life or death situation most people will freeze and become statistics or flee which is preferred whenever possible. It is just not feasible for 99% of people to be ready to take someone else's life even in defense of their own. Now I am older than most of our great veterans who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan having served in an earlier time. Many of those folks have faced life and death situations and come back, however few have had to experience a close quarters situation where they had to see the expression on someone's face when you killed them. I don't mean to diminish the service of others I simply mean this as a point of fact. There are many important roles that people service in our nations armed forces, very few of them result in being in a place where one needs to kill an enemy directly and close up.

I do understand the mentality of it not always being feasible to carry. For most people they choose comfort and convenience and that doesn't make you less of a person, just someone who doesn't desire or have the ability to alter their wardrobe, spend hundreds on holsters in search of one that is comfortable and functional. What I will say above all else is practice as much as possible, even if you're only carrying part time you can never practice too much.

Andy, I understand your points above. My wife is the Director a charter school and this is a subject we've spent a great deal of time discussing. Now one of the items you must prepare for is the reality that if presented an active shooter scenario yes it will most likely be a student, estranged parent or something of the like. This does not diminish this persons desire to kill you or others. My wife has her CHL and makes the conscious (and responsible) decision to not carry most of the time and not at all at school because she doesn't believe her skills are where they should be.

Now I've seen many of the students in my wife/kids school and yes if one of them was an active shooter I would have to kill them, unfortunately I have previously had make a life and death decision with a firearm and I survived where the other person did not. I say unfortunately because in spite of what many others say it is very difficult to take life and most will live with the images for their entire life. Now in that active shooter scenario there would be a lot of grief counseling and many people would need a lot of help for a very long time, the big point is they would be alive to get that help.
 
I also cannot carry at work, I work in a hospital. One of my roles is Code team/Rapid Response for the whole hospital. I could be, at anytime anywhere on a huge campus. I have thought about this, and went to some training with our public safety officers, who are now armed.

I think, of any of the disasters that could occur, fire, earthquake, etc...gunfire would be the only one I would move towards. I disarmed a potential shooter when I worked in the ER in Southern AZ, I have been stabbed, spit upon, punched, kicked, scratched, hit over the head with med bottles in my almost 20 years of caring for others, and I keep going back. It is an event I could have the potential to have a positive impact.
 
Greetings Ladies and Gentlemen,

The following is my opinion on the topic. I'm sharing it in hopes that it will benefit others. Either because you agree and gain some perspective, or because you disagree and gain some perspective.

Regardless, I'm not casting judgment on anyone no matter what your position is. In my life I find that I learn, and absorb more, by asking people questions and hearing their point of view.

***​

I'm turning 42 years old this year. I have my CHL, and I don't carry all the time.

Regarding an active shooter situation; my personal rules of engagement are these.

1.) If it's just me and my kids, then my first priority is to get my kids out safe.
2.) If I'm with someone, then they get the kids out and I engage the shooter.
3.) If I'm alone, I engage the shooter.

These are my personal rules, whether I'm carrying a firearm or not.

It's simply not feasible to carry all the time. And even if you are carrying at the time our own 4 Rules of Firearms Safety teach us that most popular active shooter scenarios it is highly probable that won't be allowed to fire anyway due to crowds and unsafe backgrounds.

But our motto (as a populace) should be "Fight Back". Fight back with whatever tools you have at your disposal.

As firearms enthusiasts, we know how much ground can be covered in 1.5 seconds. We also know how hard it is to hit a moving target. We know how adrenaline, and tunnel vision reduces fine motor skills and effects our ability to aim, focus, and shoot. We also know that people don't blow up when they're hit with a bullet like they show in the movies. We can use these to our advantage. Throw a stapler, or a book, or whatever is nearby. Even if does no damage, it's human instinct to flinch and look away from something flying at you. (Try it yourself: Have someone throw something soft and fluffy in your face and see if you can keep your eyes open through impact.) A flinch buys time, and allows you to close distance. It will also draw the shooters attention to you. Which will allow others to get away. Or it will allow the other sheepdog charging from the rear to gain ground while you distract. Even if you take a couple rounds, there is no guarantee that it's going to take you down. Tupac was shot 9 times and lived. That old dude in chicago was shot 68 times by the police and lived. That 16 year old girl in Clackamas took a .223 to the chest and lived. You're either going to close the distance and take the guy down with a tackle or you're going to focus the shooters attention on you long enough to help others get away.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a strong supporter of Gun Rights. I just don't think it's feasible to carry all the time. And again... even if you ARE carrying, it might not be the right tool for the job. As a citizen carrying legally you DO NOT have qualified immunity like the police do. It doesn't matter what your intent is... if you shoot an innocent you will pay the price for it. It doesn't matter if you keep attorney's on retainer or not. Having a justified shoot might keep you from going to jail, but look at Zimmerman, or Officer Darren Wilson. Both legal shoots, both ruined for life.

Everyone must gauge their own personal stance on the topic. Speed vs Safety. Obviously the safest fashion to store your guns would be completely dismantled, magazine empty and locked up in a safe at home... ammo stored at a neighbors house. The fastest would be to just carry your gun in your hand at all times. Screw the holster, that just slows things down. Neither of those are very reasonable in my opinion. So we each need to choose where we fall in between those two extremes.

I offer this up simply as a discussion topic. And I certainly hope this doesn't lead to mockery, or name calling, or judgments. We're obviously (nationally) are in a fight for our rights as gun owners. There are people who are devoted Pro-Gun, devoted Anti-Gun and then there are a whole lot of people in the middle who are undecided. Calling people names and mocking people who don't agree with our point of view is not going to sway anyone to our side of the aisle.

Thank you
I'm old and I am only concerned with protecting myself and my wife. For example: We're in a mall and a guy starts killing people. If we can get away, we will. If we can't, and we are hiding against a money machine and he fires at us and starts moving our way, I will fire back, as long as he keeps moving towards us. If he, after I shoot once, decides not to bother us and he turns in the other direction, I will stop firing. Everyone should not be judged for the decision they make to be or not to be a hero. The only person I am concerned in protecting is my wife and myself.
That's not to say if a women was being beaten up in the street and howling, that I wouldn't call the police and yeah at the guy. If he fires at me, I would close the door and hunker down. If he came into our home, I would kill him.
If people want to be a hero, do not hesitate, just shoot. Reminds me of a true story, where a couple of guys with AK-47's in a huge mall were shooting and killing people. This man, a store owner, walks out of his store and sees one killer about thirty or so feet away and his back is to the owner. The owner takes out his gun and stands in the perfect firing stance, and both hands on his 9mm auto. But then does he shoot? No! He yells, "I've got a gun, drop that rifle!"
Well the bad guy spins around and before he even stops spinning, a round comes out of his barrel and hits the guy in the stomach and goes through him and destroys his spine. He now is in the wheel chair for life! Lesson learned--you see a bad guy shooting people and his back is to you, don't say anything, just empty your gun into his back and a couple in his head.
Sifu
 
My personal ROE

If I am in a position to engage an active shooter or armed attacker, I will. I couldn't stand myself if I were able to help, and didn't. I couldn't stand myself if I watched innocent people die because of my inaction. I have no duty - other than that to myself - to intervene, but I would have to live with myself if I survived, and that would be a lot easier knowing I did what I could to stop the madness or to save lives.

I carry every day, everywhere. I don't go places the law says I can't carry, or places where there are metal detectors or x-ray machines and have no carry policies. I carry because I travel all over for my job, I deal with strangers every day from all walks of life, I usually have cash on me, and I'm very often alone. I carry because I am solely responsible for my safety. I carry for the safety of my family and friends and anyone I may happen to be with.

My carry gun is simply a tool, not a magic wand, and it's not the only tool I carry, though it is the only singluar use tool I carry. I also have a basic first aid kit, and when funds allow I plan on building it up and getting the training to be more effective with it. Been a while since I was last through a first aid course and could certainly use a refresher.

You never know when crazy or evil will strike, and we don't know exactly how we will react when it all goes down, but I think we all have a good idea of how we will honestly react when bad things happen. Judging from how I have dealt with other stressful situations, locking up and doing nothing is not likely to happen, nor is fleeing.

I pray every day I never have to find out how things would turn out, and that such a situation stays a mental exercise.
 
Greetings Ladies and Gentlemen,

The following is my opinion on the topic. I'm sharing it in hopes that it will benefit others. Either because you agree and gain some perspective, or because you disagree and gain some perspective.

Regardless, I'm not casting judgment on anyone no matter what your position is. In my life I find that I learn, and absorb more, by asking people questions and hearing their point of view.

***​

I'm turning 42 years old this year. I have my CHL, and I don't carry all the time.

Regarding an active shooter situation; my personal rules of engagement are these.

1.) If it's just me and my kids, then my first priority is to get my kids out safe.
2.) If I'm with someone, then they get the kids out and I engage the shooter.
3.) If I'm alone, I engage the shooter.

These are my personal rules, whether I'm carrying a firearm or not.

It's simply not feasible to carry all the time. And even if you are carrying at the time our own 4 Rules of Firearms Safety teach us that most popular active shooter scenarios it is highly probable that won't be allowed to fire anyway due to crowds and unsafe backgrounds.

But our motto (as a populace) should be "Fight Back". Fight back with whatever tools you have at your disposal.

As firearms enthusiasts, we know how much ground can be covered in 1.5 seconds. We also know how hard it is to hit a moving target. We know how adrenaline, and tunnel vision reduces fine motor skills and effects our ability to aim, focus, and shoot. We also know that people don't blow up when they're hit with a bullet like they show in the movies. We can use these to our advantage. Throw a stapler, or a book, or whatever is nearby. Even if does no damage, it's human instinct to flinch and look away from something flying at you. (Try it yourself: Have someone throw something soft and fluffy in your face and see if you can keep your eyes open through impact.) A flinch buys time, and allows you to close distance. It will also draw the shooters attention to you. Which will allow others to get away. Or it will allow the other sheepdog charging from the rear to gain ground while you distract. Even if you take a couple rounds, there is no guarantee that it's going to take you down. Tupac was shot 9 times and lived. That old dude in chicago was shot 68 times by the police and lived. That 16 year old girl in Clackamas took a .223 to the chest and lived. You're either going to close the distance and take the guy down with a tackle or you're going to focus the shooters attention on you long enough to help others get away.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a strong supporter of Gun Rights. I just don't think it's feasible to carry all the time. And again... even if you ARE carrying, it might not be the right tool for the job. As a citizen carrying legally you DO NOT have qualified immunity like the police do. It doesn't matter what your intent is... if you shoot an innocent you will pay the price for it. It doesn't matter if you keep attorney's on retainer or not. Having a justified shoot might keep you from going to jail, but look at Zimmerman, or Officer Darren Wilson. Both legal shoots, both ruined for life.

Everyone must gauge their own personal stance on the topic. Speed vs Safety. Obviously the safest fashion to store your guns would be completely dismantled, magazine empty and locked up in a safe at home... ammo stored at a neighbors house. The fastest would be to just carry your gun in your hand at all times. Screw the holster, that just slows things down. Neither of those are very reasonable in my opinion. So we each need to choose where we fall in between those two extremes.

I offer this up simply as a discussion topic. And I certainly hope this doesn't lead to mockery, or name calling, or judgments. We're obviously (nationally) are in a fight for our rights as gun owners. There are people who are devoted Pro-Gun, devoted Anti-Gun and then there are a whole lot of people in the middle who are undecided. Calling people names and mocking people who don't agree with our point of view is not going to sway anyone to our side of the aisle.

Thank you

When you go home tonight...consider 'not hugging' your children or even seeing them again or them seeing you...for the rest of their lives.

Please don't charge in on an armed assailant...they are crazed...they will kill you. I think distractions would be a good idea...and there might be others coming to put down the assailant....assess, and plan quickly, sure. Don't standby and watch people die, but don't get yourself killed.

Joly
 
What a great discussion. This is something we need to talk about and train for, at least mentally.

I am also one who goes armed at all times if possible, every time I step out my front door. It's an easy habit to acquire. When I'm going somewhere, I grab my car keys, my sunglasses, my cell phone, and my gun. In the rare case that someone asks me why I feel the need to be armed all the time, I say "Let me ask you a question. Do you fasten your seat belt before you drive your car?" My gun is a safety device.

As a former law enforcement volunteer, I would like to think that I would run toward the sound of gunfire with the desire to stop the killing. I don't wear the badge any more, but I still have the gun and the training, and couldn't imagine running away from a killer and then trying to look at myself in the mirror afterward. The lifelong guilt at having allowed people to die when I could have tried to end it, would be more painful than any bullet wounds. "The coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave but one." (Ernest Hemingway)

I have thought about scenarios, too. I would give a warning to the shooter first, if possible:

DROP THE GUN - DROP THE GUN - DROP THE GUN!!!

If the muzzle started to turn in my direction, then I would shoot until there was no more deadly threat. There's really no need to "shoot to kill," as some people might accuse. If you shoot him once and he drops the gun, then there's no need to keep shooting. I've thought about the unarmed assailant too, the Michael Brown scenario. I'm not a large guy, so it's in the realm of possibility that a bystander might see some big dude charging at me and think I was in fear for my life. I would try to give a warning too:

STOP OR I'LL SHOOT - STOP OR I'LL SHOOT - STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!!!

Stated as many times as possible until the person is too close to stop. Both warnings would be aimed at both the bad guy and the bystanders. Any witnesses would be able to say "I saw it. He tried everything he could to get the bad guy to stop. In the end, he was forced to shoot." Witnesses have different memories of what they have seen, but it's my guess that no one would misremember those shouted words.

It has been said that no battle plan survives contact with the enemy. Probably no real life scenario will play out the way you imagine it in your mind, either. But I think it's good to have something in mind, rather than just trying to wing it. That's why discussions like this are worth their weight in gold.
 
Wow, this is the first time I have incountered this discussion and there was no flames burning! Well done every one! I see every single person who has responded has in fact offered positive feed back! As a 25 year combat veteran I have seen more then my share of death and suffering while down range, and this has caused me to focus my thoughts on my civilian life in an entirely diffrent way, The oft mentioned thousand yard stare has saved my butt countless times! Being aware of every thing around us makes us better prepped! With these experiences I have developed a specific set of R.O.E's that I try to live by! It is never possable to be ready for every thing. The way I see it is that every one has there own level of prep and that makes US that much better then not being mentally or physically able to respond! I realise that I am not 25 any more, or 35, and that my skill set has diminished some what now that I no longer live that life! I would like to think I would respond with mesured force, but reality tells me that this isnt likely, My life is my number one focus as it that of my wife and two son's! After that, I would have to make that choice and hope to be able to live with that! To take a life is not something I ever want to experience ever again, and I hope with all my heart that I never have to use those hard earned/won skills ever again! To live with ones self after is something I hope no one ever has to experience EVER! I commend every one here for keeping this real and tracking strait! WELL DONE!
 
My biggest fear in life is seeing something happen to my children.
And second is my children growing up without my wife or I.

I would do anything and everything physically possible, maybe somethings people would say are not possible to ensure my families safety.
Mine second.

Everyone else and a large distant 3rd.

If I'm able to help save others without putting myself in imminent danger I would do so.

Otherwise it's everyone for themselves.
The sheep need to become armed sheep if they want to be protected.
 
People who don't carry can depend on the police. I carry to protect myself and my wife. I am too physically decrepit to go mano-a-mano with anybody over 10 years old or flee from anybody with both legs. If I/we can get out that's the first choice. If I hear shots from afar I'm not running to join the party. If somebody cuts me off in traffic and gives me the finger, no biggie - certainly not even worth returning the finger. If I'm in the position of being threatened with great bodily harm then it's center mass to slide lock.
 
I believe it is very helpful to play through these scenarios in our minds as it helps us to prepare mentally and emotionally for that moment should it come. I also believe that none of us, except those here who have already been there, know what we will really do until it happens.
 

Upcoming Events

Tillamook Gun & Knife Show
Tillamook, OR
"The Original" Kalispell Gun Show
Kalispell, MT
Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR
Kids Firearm Safety 2 Class
Springfield, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top