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Ammunition plus gun in case... Unlawful?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by sowatnao, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. sowatnao

    sowatnao seattle Member

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    This may have been asked before.... But search didnt give any hit.
    Is it OK to put ammunition, magazines, and gun all in one case? I have a pelican case that i am doing cutouts and i have some space that i need to fill. I was wondering if it's going to be a violation of any law if i put them all in the same case.

    Remember, NO ammunition will be loaded inside the magazine nor inside the chamber.

    RCW stated that its only loaded if the magazine is loaded with ammunition or if there is bullet in the chamber.
     
  2. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    I know in many Oregon cities, without a CHL, a loaded/unloaded handgun must not be immediately accessible. Must be locked in a container/case, glove box (no key in lock), or in trunk. In an SUV with no locking glovebox that means some sort of locking container. WA may be different.

    Rifles are not as stringent. I believe it is OK to have rifles and ammo in the same case, even having access. The law in most areas treat handguns and rifles differently. You might want to specify which type of weapon you are trying to put into that Pelican.
     
  3. sowatnao

    sowatnao seattle Member

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    Oh sorry i forgot to specify what "gun"
    BUT its More like guns. Right now its for a handgun And an ar15 rifle (a shotgun may be joining the party in the pelican in a few days)
    60rnds of 5.56, 40rnds of .40s&w and 20rnds of 12ga(if i get a shotG) is my ammo in the case BUT NOT LOADED IN MAG/CHAMBER kind of plan.
    I am also a WA CPL holder So it is legal for me toi transport the loaded handgun. But the ammo+mag+rifle all in the same case is a blur to me.
     
  4. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    If you have your CHL, I don't think you have any problem. Laws are more particular about handguns. If you can put the AR/shotgun and ammo in a case in the trunk you should be fine. With your CHL I wouldn't see a cop harassing you about having it on the back seat. I would call the sheriff's office that issued your CHL for answers.
     
  5. nubus

    nubus Guest

    RCW 9.41.050

    IMHO the only place for a loaded pistol in your vehicle is on your hip.
    For sections (i) and (ii) it's a comma, NOT an "or" so what will an LEO consider "on your person" is the real question.

    Full RCW HERE.
     
  6. VW_Factor

    VW_Factor Woodburn Oregon Active Member

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    There really aren't that many.
     
  7. sowatnao

    sowatnao seattle Member

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    RCW 77.15.460: Loaded firearm in vehicle

    And then there's this...
    So i believe this answers it? They can be all in the sAme case As long as no ammuntion related object is attached to the firearm and there's no ammunition in the magazine then it is not considered loaded.
    I will take note to keep the hand gun in my immidiate possesion when transporting. Hehe tnx
     
  8. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    In WA with a rifle or shotgun, you cannot transport in a vehicle with ammo in the weapon. It is an anti poaching F&W regulation, has nothing to do with carry. The rifle or shotgun does not need to be cased, just unloaded. It does not need to be in the trunk or in any other concealment...just unloaded...that is all...it's simple.

    As to your pistol: If you have a CPL, it can be loaded, or not, your choice, in the Vehicle with you, on your person, or not, but if you leave it in the vehicle you must conceal it in the vehicle from outside view.

    (9.41.50.2 it can be read "i" OR "ii" OR "iii". (Simple English grammer says so, it is three situations. not two) There is no requirement the pistol physically be on you person while loaded, with you in a vehicle, with a CPL. You must have your permit with you though)
     
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  9. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    The WA AG's office has issued a clarification of the law. I have a copy of it posted on one of my servers. I'll post a link here when I find it. The handgun does not have to be "on your person" in a vehicle though.

    OK, I didn't have it on a server so I uploaded it, HERE it is.
     
  10. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    Lets say I have $100 and If I were to say I could purchase "a rifle, a pistol or a shotgun" with that $100, would you think I could purchase one of the three items listed? 2 of the three items listed? or one or two of the items???? Standard English grammer says, I mean I could purchase i: a rifle, or ii: a pistol, or iii: a shotgun. It is normal in English to seperate items in a list of more than 2 with a comma and not "and" or "or" between each one.

    Items i, ii, and iii are three seperate statements./ Statement one, statement two, or statement three, apply seperately, they are not combined, they are seperate..
     
  11. nubus

    nubus Guest

    Thank you for posting that. Obviously there has been some murkiness in the reading in the past.
    And I don't want to leave the interpretation to some small town LEO putting his spin on it.
    (No offense small town LEO who pulls me over next time!)
     
  12. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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    In Oregon, the state-issued CHL pre-empts all local ordinances except those regulating discharge of a firearm. Neither Oregon nor Washington law consider a detachable magazine to be a "firearm". So ammunition in a detached magazine is not a loaded firearm. If the magazine with ammunition in it is inserted into the firearm, the fierarm is loaded, whether a round is chambered or not.
     
  13. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I believe it just can not be accessible to anyone else in the vehicle.I would suppose another permit holder would be OK

    But this was beat to death about 3 months ago and I found out after years of thinking you had to separate the two,that you do not.The mag can be laying under the gun on the passenger seat ,ready to go

    Someone told me the gun can't be in view from other vehicles...Yes no?
     
  14. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Yes they are combined.It is saying the gun has to be either on your person,you are in the car with it,*OR* it is hidden from view.
    Three choices there.Statements are combined

     
  15. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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    If there's a licensee in the vehicle, you're good to go- the licensee has to be the one who placed it there. Nothing in the RCW says anything about other people in the vehicle. Be very literal. Nothing in the RCW says anything about visibility from outside the vehicle unless you're leaving it there alone. If the licensee leaves the vehicle, it must be locked and out of sight. Check 9.41 again.

    The AG's office has held that the 3 clauses that Nubus points out above in 9.41.050 are separate. The firearm is either on your person or you are in the car at all times (firearm lying on the seat next to you) or it is locked and not visible when you are out of the car. This makes sense in that as long as you are in the vehicle, the firearm is under your direct control regardless of whether it is phsyically attached to you or simply somewhere in the vehicle. If it's not loaded, it can be anywhere, visible or not (as long as you're in the vehcile and thus have control), and you don't need a CPL.
     
  16. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    Item i: The pistol is on your person.

    By implication, if it is on your person, and you are in the vehicle, it will also be in the vehicle.


    Item ii: You are in the vehicle, and the weapon is also in the vehicle, but not on your person.

    It is not on your person, as in it is laying on the seat, on the floor, whereever, it does not need to be concealed.


    Item iii: If you leave the vehicle, and you also leave the weapon inside that vehicle, it must not be visible from outside the vehicle.

    They do not want you to leave the weapon on the seat in plain view so someone can see it. Consider this statement "theft prevention"

    I also would not want to leave the weapon in the vehicle with someone that does not have a CPL, unless it was unloaded and locked up. Legal protection for your passenger, not from theft, or compliance with the RCW.

    Edit to add: This pertains to a Pistol carried for SD, none of this applies to a rifle or shotgun for any reason. Unless you are a disabled person, with a disabled hunting license you cannot posess a loaded rifle or shotgun in any Vehicle.
     
  17. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    The OP ask about WASHINGTON rules. And we always end up with, for example "I know in many Oregon cities" where people start answering with rules and laws that do not apply to the state being asked about.
    Toss your opinion in if you wish. but PLEASE avoid murking the issues with other states rules when the OP is specifically mentioning a state
    If you wish to quote law, quote WASHINGTON law, where the question is about WASHINGTON or Oregon law if the question is about Oregon or Idaho or Ohio.

    RANT OFF.
     
  18. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Gee thanks Mark
     
  19. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    Your welcome.
     
  20. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    It is you're welcome.

    Rant off.
     
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