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Americans Have No Right To Buy Handguns

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Chee-to, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    N.J. Court Says Americans Have No Right To Buy Handguns

    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/28/taking_liberties/entry5440647.shtml

    A New Jersey appeals court has concluded that Americans have no Second Amendment right to buy a handgun.

    In a case decided last week, the superior court upheld a state law saying that nobody may possess "any handgun" without obtaining law enforcement approval and permission in advance.

    That outcome might seem like something of a surprise, especially after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled last year in the D.C. v. Heller case that the Second Amendment guarantees "the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation."

    But New Jersey Appellate Division Judge Stephen Skillman wrote on behalf of a unanimous three-judge panel that Heller "has no impact upon the constitutionality of" the state law.

    That's because, Skillman said, the Supreme Court did not strike down the District of Columbia's de facto handgun ban but instead simply ordered the city to issue a permit. In other words, while Americans may have the right in general to possess arms, the exact contours of that right have not been mapped, especially as the Second Amendment applies to state laws. (The court's majority opinion last year said: "We therefore assume that petitioners' issuance of a license will satisfy respondent's prayer for relief and do not address the licensing requirement.")

    Look for the Supreme Court to revisit this question in a few months when it hears a case called McDonald v. Chicago. It's a constitutional challenge to Chicago's restrictive gun laws, which prohibit anyone from possessing firearms -- even in their homes -- "unless such person is the holder of a valid registration certificate for such firearm."

    New Jersey's laws are similar. They say: "No person shall sell, give, transfer, assign or otherwise dispose of, nor receive, purchase, or otherwise acquire a handgun unless the purchaser, assignee, donee, receiver or holder... has first secured a permit to purchase a handgun as provided by this section."

    Another section dealing with licensing says: "No person of good character and good repute in the community in which he lives, and who is not subject to any of the disabilities set forth in this section or other sections of this chapter, shall be denied a permit to purchase a handgun or a firearms purchaser identification card, except as hereinafter set forth." Some of the exceptions involve criminal records, for instance.

    What prompted the current lawsuit was a request for a handgun purchase permit that Anthony Dubov submitted to the East Windsor Chief of Police. The police chief denied Dubov's request without giving any reason, in what the appeals court later ruled was a violation of state law. The current East Windsor police chief is William Spain.

    Oddly, the trial judge upheld that denial, without asking the police chief to testify to explain himself (another violation of state law) and after taking the unusual step of contacting Dubov's previous employers to ask about his background.

    Dubov's attorney, Michael Nieschmidt, argued that the state licensing scheme was unconstitutionally vague and therefore violated the Second Amendment.

    Skillman concluded that while the Second Amendment doesn't apply, state law and precedent nevertheless required that Dubov receive more due process than he did. The appeals court wrote: "Accordingly, the trial court's affirmance of the police chief's denial of appellant's application for a firearms purchase permit is reversed, and the case is remanded for an evidentiary hearing in conformity with this opinion."
     
  2. jeddedia

    jeddedia Wilsonville, Oregon, United States Member

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    Wow,
    I hate politicians. And stupid, misinformed people that complain about guns. And liberal media. Oh and I hate cheez-wiz.
     
  3. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    First off, I love cheez wiz.

    But isn't this the exact reason the 2nd amendment was created, to give the people (us) the guarenteed right to keep firearms to fight against such laws?

    The 2nd amendment didn't say you can have guns as long as the gov't state or national say it's ok.
    This pisses me off. This is why we were given the right to bear arms so when the gov't says were taking your guns, we can say click.........Bang!

    After they take the guns their going to say freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say what you want, it means you can talk just not against the gov't.

    When have we had enough? I tell you what if the town I live in pulls that, I'm getting the biggest sword I can find. And as many knives as I can carry.

    But it's funny they never start taking away the guns of the criminals, but with the law abiding citizens.
     
  4. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    See this is the gun banners latest tactic, divide the second amendment into a states rights vs federal rights. A divide and conquer strategy. The second amendment is neither a state or federal right, it is a citizens right (not a privilege).

    As a comparative example lets take the 1st amendment which protects religious freedom, guarantees free speech, freedom of the press and assembly and the right to petition the government. It would be ridiculous to say the federal government can't take this away but the individual states can. See what I did there?
     
  5. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    We should drown them in cheez wiz.
     
  6. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    See those black SUVs out in front of your house?.......................




    They beg to differ.:laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  7. huntpotter

    huntpotter SW WA Negotiator Bronze Supporter

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    So the 2nd ammendment doesn't guaranty the right to bear handguns? That's ok, as long as I have my M1A, or AR-15. I'll get by. It's just harder to conceal when you are shopping at safeway.
     
  8. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    The Founding Fathers deliberately divided the Government into 3 parts: Executive, legislative and Judicial. These were supposed to protect the people's God given Rights against ALL enemies of freedom. Unfortunately, these 3 systems have degenerated into political groups which pursue their own personal agendas and consider the people as peons. A Supreme Court Justice (I don't remember his name) once said that "...the Constitution means what the judges say it means...". I read another judge who said that "...people get their Rights from the government (that sure would be news to the Founders of this country!)". So, I wouldn't count on any of "THEM" to protect any of "US"!
     
  9. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

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    And they can count on my Rifle to NOT protect them either!
     
  10. servingu

    servingu Vancouver (not BC) WA (not DC) Member

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    so they say we (west) are ten yrs behind the east coast? umm. i say they (the dudes n black) will never take my guns... or my fake cheez in a can.
     
  11. PMKN_PI

    PMKN_PI Milwaukie, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    No, you refuse to hand over your weapons, that what you do. The state is acting illegally, its up to you to enforce the law of the land when that happens. The 2nd amendment guarantees a free state(armed citizens, not subjects)
     
  12. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    We do NOT have to obey unConstitutional laws. Of course, the Government is a big bully with lots of power. They have BIG guns, tanks, planes and bombs! But, they can only break the law only as long as WE, THE PEOPLE allow them to do so. So, I guess crunch time is coming!
     
  13. pogi

    pogi Gresham, OR Active Member

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    New Jersey the Garbage State.
     
  14. Wenis

    Wenis Tri-Cities, WA Member

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    not topic relevant but I thought it belongs.
    bustedtees.24341dff984860ec177dfd540c06412d.gif
     
  15. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    What this bit of bravado misses is that the NJ case isn't about anyone coming to take your guns. It's about restrictions on the acquisition. If you think that's impermissible under the 2nd Amendment, how are you going to "enforce the law of the land"?

    It's easy to for people to beat their chests and say things like, "Come and get them." And you might fantasize about barricading your house and defending your guns against storm troopers out to take them. But that's not how this is going to play out.

    The real question is: What practical and smart steps are you taking on a daily basis to organize politically and keep other voters from seeing gun owners as violent, anti-social, hysterical, paranoid nutjobs? Watching Fox News? Listening to talk radio? Agreeing with likeminded people on an internet forum?

    Sorry, that will boost ratings for certain programs, help rich guys with pretty hair to promote books, and increase advertising revenues for big media companies and their execs, but it isn't going to do you a lick of good in protecting your gun rights.
     
  16. Blov

    Blov Oregon Central Coast Member

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    +1
     
  17. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    You can refuse......But then they will kill you , or throw you in jail and that's where you'll stay. How will you fight then.
    If the gov't wants to take your guns they will. You can fight till you die or run and fight. But you can't simply say no without killing someone or going to jail.

    I would rather hand over the gun and then fight by other means of guerilla warfare. Without them knowing who it is.
    You cna fight the gov't. You can't change their minds. The agenda is alreaday in place and going to their direction. Either we need to unite together and make them aware now that we won't stand for this or were going to lose this right.

    The question is how do we band together and get every gun owner, gun lover, freedom lover to get together and send a strong message? Complaining on a chat room doesn't fight the man.
     
  18. PMKN_PI

    PMKN_PI Milwaukie, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    Well, the war has to start somewhere. And probably with someone like me who becomes a killer,martyr or jailed for freedom, when they are accosted by the .gov to take their arms.
     
  19. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    That is true, but I would rather have you not die and have another person to fight this war. Either way it's bound to happen and were in the ticking time bomb and the fuse is getting really short.
     
  20. slideglider

    slideglider PDX Member

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    All you have to do to get them out of power is withdraw all your money out of the bank and not use the currency any more. Use another form of money. Gold, Silver, direct barter, whatever. They only control you through THEIR money(currency). That was the plan for well over a hundred years and has been the MO of every bureaucracy in history.