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I'm focusing more and more on precision loading for long range shooting with the 6.5 Creedmoor. My usual procedure is as follows:

Initial clean in walnut with a little Flitz and mineral spirits.
Decap.
Lube with Hornady One Shot per directions on can.
Full length resize.
Expand case mouths with a carbide mandrel die.
Trim, chamfer, de-burr, and clean primer pockets as needed.
A second clean in plain corn cob just to remove lube residue (I know Hornady says it's not needed, but I do it it anyway).
Then prime, charge, and seat bullets.

I don't do any other case prep after the second cleaning, no brushing or lubing of case necks, just seat bullets as the cases come out of the corn cob. So the question is, should I be brushing and/or lubing the case necks before seating bullets? And if I do add another step, what difference can I expect? Or to put it another way, what am I giving up by NOT doing it? Thanks.

Dave
 
Does your fl sizing die resize neck? Never have heard of a separate step with a carbide expander for a bottle neck rifle cartridge. I seat bullets in properly fl sized brass with no separate expanding or lube.
 
I remove the expander button and decapping pins, I either decap with a hand tool or a universal decapping die on a different press, and I just feel I get more consistent results with the mandrel. But no, I'm not expanding the necks twice.
 
I remove the expander button and decapping pins, I either decap with a hand tool or a universal decapping die on a different press, and I just feel I get more consistent results with the mandrel. But no, I'm not expanding the necks twice.

This is the result of using the dies as they come, without dismantling them and using another set if whatevers. Three shot groups at 100 in .308Win - all day long. After a couple, to make sure the load is still working, I put the gun away and shoot something else. All I need to know is that I'm pretty much certain to hit that 200mm diameter disc at 900m most of the time.
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How using your method might improve on this result is outside my remit. However, you go on doing what you want to do - it's your trainset.
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...and for general information - rifle - Krico 650S from 1986 with over 12,000 shot-count. Scope - NightForce 8-31x56 NSX. Shooter - 74 years old - uncountable shot-count. Wristwatch - Marathon J-SAR. Hat courtesy of Portland Bolt Inc. Shooting duds - courtesy of the Swiss Army. :)
 
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Does your fl sizing die resize neck? Never have heard of a separate step with a carbide expander for a bottle neck rifle cartridge. I seat bullets in properly fl sized brass with no separate expanding or lube.
It's not uncommon to resize the brass and then use a separate die to size the neck diameter, when it comes to precision shooters. Getting consistent neck tension is something strived for.

OP might consider looking into getting the correct bullet collet for his seating die to increase the chances of having better concentricity when seating bullets.

I would brush the necks with a nylon brush myself if I were using the same cleaning media, so clear any dust or misc polish/media mixture that might have stayed behind.
 
Some people like to anneal the necks, for consistent pressure. Just something I've read about, annealers are kinda spendy, and doing it by guess and by golly seems pretty imprecise.
 
I lightly lube inside of case necks when I resize the case, but that's when i also use the expander ball. If I was using the expander in an separate step, I'd lube them sparingly, or every 5th round or so.
 
It's not uncommon to resize the brass and then use a separate die to size the neck diameter, when it comes to precision shooters. Getting consistent neck tension is something strived for.

OP might consider looking into getting the correct bullet collet for his seating die to increase the chances of having better concentricity when seating bullets.

I would brush the necks with a nylon brush myself if I were using the same cleaning media, so clear any dust or misc polish/media mixture that might have stayed behind.

I'm using a Forster micrometer seater, and the stem is a good fit to the bullets I'm using. I use different media for initial cleaning with polish, etc., and just plain corn cob to clean off any lube residue after all my other prep is done. I think there's just enough lube residue in my media to keep the dust down, they come out nice and clean without being dusty.

Have recently looked into annealing, I can see the advantage, just not sure the juice is worth the squeeze, I do this for my own entertainment, not for competition. That said, I'm OCD enough that I can see an annealer in my future :rolleyes:. Later, and thanks.

Dave
 
I remove the expander button and decapping pins, I either decap with a hand tool or a universal decapping die on a different press, and I just feel I get more consistent results with the mandrel. But no, I'm not expanding the necks twice.
The only reason I go that route is with military brass. And only because it saves decapping pins.
 
So how does it group with your reloads? Maybe that little bit more accuracy you are looking for
is the exact recipe your rifle likes.:oops: What type of powder and bullets are you using? Vihtavuori? Sierra Match Kings?
Bergers? Different brands or even different lots of brass can result in very different results. Seating depths?
It is kind of endless amount of variables. By the time you figure it out you have enough rounds down the tube for
a new barrel? Then you can start over on load development.:(
 
You are overthinking it.

So how does it group with your reloads? Maybe that little bit more accuracy you are looking for
is the exact recipe your rifle likes.:oops: What type of powder and bullets are you using? Vihtavuori? Sierra Match Kings?
Bergers? Different brands or even different lots of brass can result in very different results. Seating depths?
It is kind of endless amount of variables. By the time you figure it out you have enough rounds down the tube for
a new barrel? Then you can start over on load development.:(

So what's your point, guys, and how does it relate to my original post? I wasn't asking for your opinions or critique of my current process, only if I was overlooking something that might make a difference. That's what it's all about for me, I call them 1 percenters. Any single thing might only make a 1% difference, but do 5 or 10 of those, and the cumulative effect can be significant. I decap as a separate step mostly to keep my press clean. I expand with a mandrel because I've read enough anecdotal info to convince me it can make a difference in cartridge concentricity and consistent neck tension vs. using the expander button in the sizing die. Bottom line, none of what I do is likely to reduce the accuracy and consistency of my hand loads, and the only ongoing cost is time, something I have enough of, so why not?

To answer your questions, Ron, as I said, I'm just getting started with precision loads for the Creedmoor. So far, I've tried Varget and Superformance, but I have a bunch of test loads using Vihta Vuori N555 just waiting on my next range trip. I've used a variety of brass from the variety of factory ammo I started with, but I also have some new Starline small primer and Alpha large primer to test as well. SMK's don't have the BC's I'm looking for, I've got ELD-M's, Bergers, and Barnes I'll be trying out. So yes, lots of variables, but if I can eliminate as many as possible with meticulous case prep, again, why not? And if I shoot out a barrel, no biggie, they're not that expensive, and odds are, any good loads I come up with in this barrel will perhaps only need minor tweaking in a new one. And it's not like the Creedmoor is exactly a barrel burner anyway, especially as I tend to avoid max or near max loads. Later.

Dave
 
No offense intended and yes you are entitled to perform whatever steps you think may help. My focus is mainly accurate and reliable loads for hunting so my thoughts and methods may not always pertain to other pursuits. Early on in my reloading career I went down some rabbit holes in pursuit of ultimate accuracy. Some techniques have stuck but many have went by the wayside. If I were in your shoes I would first find a good load that is solidly sub moa with usual techniques and then change one thing at at time and dial in on what really has a tangible effect on accuracy. What I found is some practices have no effect or were not worth the effort for the very modest gains. Only you can make these decisions and it sounds like you are a careful reloader having fun so keep us apprised of your findings! Maybe an old dog like me can learn some new tricks.
 
Dave,
What you're doing is similar to what I do for many of my precision rounds.

As you've probably read, using a mandrel can help avoid possible problems with pulling a sizing ball back up through the neck.

With the dry tumbling media you're using, I don't know if you'd benefit from lubing the insides of the necks. I didn't lube the neck IDs when I dry tumbled in walnut media and mineral spirits. I think there may well be enough residual carbon to aid you.

Wet tumbling though can cause a lot more "pull" on the bullet because it is so squeaky clean.

Ultimately, you'll need to experiment with what works for you and what makes a difference vs what doesn't make a difference.

I think what some of these guys were trying to say is that "for them" they don't think it's necessary. That's not necessarily for you and "your truth".

As a wise shooter once said to me. "If you THINK it makes a difference, then it does".

Meaning if your mind tells you it needs to be done and you DONT do it, then yes it can affect your performance.

Each person has to do what works for them and their style/level of shooting.

Btw, I also use the Forster bench rest bullet seating dies and love them.
 
"I wasn't asking for your opinions or critique of my current process, " I thought this is exactly what you are asking?:eek:
My point is how is it shooting for you now? .5 MOA? You might be over thinking this? Your case prep prosses looks good to me but
the bottom line is the bottom line. I shoot a match and score a 197-8X at 600 yards, slow fire prone I know my ammo
and my rifle are performing excellent.;)
DSC00194.JPG
 
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So what's your point, guys, and how does it relate to my original post? I wasn't asking for your opinions or critique of my current process, only if I was overlooking something that might make a difference. That's what it's all about for me, I call them 1 percenters. Any single thing might only make a 1% difference, but do 5 or 10 of those, and the cumulative effect can be significant. I decap as a separate step mostly to keep my press clean. I expand with a mandrel because I've read enough anecdotal info to convince me it can make a difference in cartridge concentricity and consistent neck tension vs. using the expander button in the sizing die. Bottom line, none of what I do is likely to reduce the accuracy and consistency of my hand loads, and the only ongoing cost is time, something I have enough of, so why not?

To answer your questions, Ron, as I said, I'm just getting started with precision loads for the Creedmoor. So far, I've tried Varget and Superformance, but I have a bunch of test loads using Vihta Vuori N555 just waiting on my next range trip. I've used a variety of brass from the variety of factory ammo I started with, but I also have some new Starline small primer and Alpha large primer to test as well. SMK's don't have the BC's I'm looking for, I've got ELD-M's, Bergers, and Barnes I'll be trying out. So yes, lots of variables, but if I can eliminate as many as possible with meticulous case prep, again, why not? And if I shoot out a barrel, no biggie, they're not that expensive, and odds are, any good loads I come up with in this barrel will perhaps only need minor tweaking in a new one. And it's not like the Creedmoor is exactly a barrel burner anyway, especially as I tend to avoid max or near max loads. Later.

Dave
Odd dodge. So have you shot it at paper?
 

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