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If you get Giardia or dysentery you are going to wish you were dead!!!! And yes you will die if not treated.

My whole issue is Jim says you WILL die... Which is BS

Can you die? sure. Its an awful thing to have. Giardia was the most physically ill I have ever been. I shot puke at high velocity covering all the floors, walls AND ceiling from OUTSIDE the bathroom... It was not a walk in the park.

Yet I was not treated and I did not die.


Ok? :D
 
My whole issue is Jim says you WILL die... Which is BS

Can you die? sure. Its an awful thing to have. Giardia was the most physically ill I have ever been. I shot puke at high velocity covering all the floors, walls AND ceiling from OUTSIDE the bathroom... It was not a walk in the park.

Yet I was not treated and I did not die.


Ok? :D

I reworded my original post.
Was it like Linda Blairs pea soup projectile vomiting in the Exorcist? COOL. We are great full you made a full recovery from that dreaded Giardia, I have a friend that had it and he wished he was dead for over a month...;)
 
So I keep reading on here I have $200 to spend do I get more ammo or more food storage. The real question is; what kind of water filtration system do you have? If you aren't filtering your water that you are adding to all your food storage from the local creek after your store is dry you will be sick as a dog and not shooting any of the ammo you saved up and boiling it wastes too much of your fuel sources long term.
So the question is are you going to die from dysentery or Giardia or are you good to go?

We have a Sawyer Point Zero Two Purifier with Bucket Adapter kit. filters up to 600 liters a day and has a backwash system Removes 99.997% of viruses, 99.99999% of bacteria, and 99.9999% of Protozoa/Cysts. Plus life straws, next is water bottles with filters built in. Any other systems worth looking into?

Purifier tablets and (fresh) bleach works well for biota contaminated water, and the tablets have a decent shelf life. Bleach has a half-life of 6 months, so you need to either buy fresh bleach at regular intervals or make your own on demand. You can get rid of the chemical (bleachy) taste through various filtration devices.

For larger groups, and for my own family, I have the Berkey filtration system, in the Crown (6 gal) size. Using Black Berkey or Propur ProBlack filters, you will filter out all the bad bio-organisms and most all heavy metals and organic contaminants. Each filter lasts for 3K gallons. The size of the Berkey determines how many filters it can use simultaneously.

http://www.berkeyfilters.com/berkey-answers/performance/filtration-specifications/

If your water source is murky, I have a stock of industrial sized (3-6 gal) coffee filters which I get through Amazon. An easy way to use these is to take a standard 5 gal bucket (like from Home Depot) and a Winco CCOD-11S stainless steel colander (Chinese Colander with 2.5 mm Holes, 11-Inch, Stainless Steel, Amazon ASIN B001VZ8RGC, $13). The colander fits perfectly into the top of the bucket. Then fit the coffee filters into the colander, pour your murky water through the colander into the bucket, and then run the filtered water through the Berkey or other similar filtration system.

If someone does manage to get Giardia or dysentery, then you must treat the illness using palliative care. For that I recommend using electrolyte replacement therapy (ERT). I have a stock of Vitalyte ERT powder, which I get from REI, 2.2 lb containers, 80 servings per container, $16, no real shelf life issues if unopened.
 
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(2) MSR MiniWorks, (2) Aqua Rain 3gal gravity filter systems with (8) Berkey black cartridges for each, (4) Berkey sport, (12) lbs of Calcium Hypochlorite, (1) 1500gal rain catchment cistern.
 
Not too worried. Not just because I live a short walk to the river, but that too. As a hiker I have a lot of water filters hanging around anyway.

2 55 gallon rain catchment systems.
Portable Aqua Tablets
2 Steripens, one old style, one new.
MSR Miniworks filter
Couple of LifeStraw Personal Water Filters
Sawyer Products SP123 Mini Water Filtration System (4-Pack)
SP191 Sawyer Point Zero Two Water Purifier (this will do a million liters, figure the whole neighborhood will need good water if it goes bad.)


Here's a pretty good bunch of review info oriented towards backpacking if anyone is looking to get something but are unsure where to start: http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacking-Water-Filter-Reviews/Ratings
 
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Food (& water), clothing, shelter, a source of energy, and the means to protect them are mandatory. At the survival level it matters not the food & water be clean, the clothing be rags, the shelter warm & dry, the energy otainable whenever needed, and the means of protection be but from a pointed stick. After survival is assured, then you can afford the luxury of getting picky about the food & water, the clothing and shelter be warm and dry, the source of energy be easily obtainable and the weapons of defense be more sofisticated. Cover all your bases.
 
Food (& water), clothing, shelter, a source of energy, and the means to protect them are mandatory. At the survival level it matters not the food & water be clean, the clothing be rags, the shelter warm & dry, the energy otainable whenever needed, and the means of protection be but from a pointed stick. After survival is assured, then you can afford the luxury of getting picky about the food & water, the clothing and shelter be warm and dry, the source of energy be easily obtainable and the weapons of defense be more sofisticated. Cover all your bases.

Water needs to be clean/potable. If it isn't then you risk your survival.

If you mean that you can always filter or boil it, then yes, but if not, then it is a serious risk. Around the world, the leading cause of death is waterborne diseases.
 
Actually I think a really thrirsty man will drink any liquid he can get his hands on ... clean, dirty, sea water, septic tank, .... Okay you would rather die of thirst holding out for clean/potable water. Different strokes for different folks.
I've drank water out of a muddy puddle. Desperate people will do worse than that. That doesn't mean it is a good thing to do and it may very well make you sick or even kill you.

Clean water is a requirement and by clean I don't mean lacking sediment, I mean lacking parasites and other crap that can make you sick. The older you are, the more vulnerable you are. Very young children who don't have fully developed immune systems, seniors, anybody with a compromised immune system, who is weak or sick, is more vulnerable.

It isn't just about cosmetics or taste, it is about putting something in your body that has a high chance of making you sick or even killing you.

So yes, it is important to have clean potable water if you want to survive - very important.
 
Actually I am looking at being mobility and not hunkered down in a fixed position. If I have a choice in a pinch of grabbing the bag with the carbine and a couple of bandaleers of ammunition, or the bag with the water filtration equipment and 'Getting out of Dodge', I grabbing the bag with the carbine and ammunition. There is a limit on what I can carry and in a pinch immediate survival might be the critical factor. Yes I have a Katadyn, a seriPen and treatment drops. The SeriPen and treatment drops are in the 'Bug Out Bag' (actually a 'Survival Bag') with the carbine. 25 pounds is my limit and that really limits what goes into the 'Survival Bag'. Not just weight limit, but space limit applies also as to what I can carry. In a 'Best of all worlds' situation I do not disagree with you at all, but then in a 'Best of all worlds' situation there would be no need to bug out.
 
Mobility is good for the young and single. For the older folks, and for people with families, it is not really an option. And then, where will you "mobile" to? You have to have a safe destination that is reachable in order for a mobile strategy to work. And finally, I am of the firm opinion that those who go solo will NOT survive. It takes a community of people standing together to withstand the issues and pressures that are coming our way. It is time to pay the piper, which is something that the Libtards will never understand.
 
Just have to say, it should be naught, which means 'nothing', instead of not, which is an adverb indicating the 'negative' of a verb, as in, "he does not want a sandwich" for example.

Just hurts my brain every time I see that title. Long day.
 
So as usual, my travel schedule has made me late to the party. The thing is, there really is no "one" good solution for water treatment, what I carry in my backpack are the sawyer filters, they're fantastic, lightweight, cheap, I probably have a dozen of them, and a set of platypus bladders to act as a gravity/forced filter. Put dirty water in the dirty bladder, screw on the filter and attach the hose, and sit on it. Or hang it up. That's fine to get water 3L at a time, that's enough for one person for one day.

For more intensive water needs, I've been installing sand filters in places I might go. I have a few different designs depending on location. The smaller unit is 6' tall, made of 4" PVC pipe, it's essentially a big fish filter, with a fiber filter on the bottom, activated charcoal, and a layer of silica sand on top. There's a second filter, that just acts as a settler, same 6' pipe, with a stop-cock on the bottom water feeds in the top, and is drawn out the middle. It's just intended to reduce turbidity and preserve the life of the sand filter. The water is chlorinated on the way in from the reservoir with a floating pool chlorinator.

I have plans to build a larger sand filter cascade up at the ranch using IBC totes with the tops cut off for bulk water. There are two springs on the property, one of them seems clean enough to drink from and has a spring tank that normally feeds the cattle guzzlers. The water that comes out is clean, clear and cold. I have drank from this with no ill effect, the only problems I know of in the area are high iron content. I have added a few water test kits to my camping kit, and will test next time I'm in the area.

Generally speaking, my long term water plans are to build treatment systems wherever possible. These consist of:

* Chlorine - made by electrolysis of brine
* Sand filtration to reduce turbidity
* Charcoal to remove chemical contaminants
* UV sterilization

Depending on your situation you can modify these to suit. If you have low water turbidity, you can probably skip the sand filter. If you have turbidity but water with low dissolved solids, you can skip the charcoal, if you have good pure running stream water but are worried about biological contamination, just use UV sterilization. Chlorine comes into play if you have high iron content in the water, which is somewhat advantageous as you can form Iron Chloride which is a common flocculant, however I recommend filtering with charcoal afterwards to remove the taste.
 
The problem with being mobile is that you are often moving through someone else's territory, quite possibly trespassing on their private property. In general, you won't be welcome there and even if you go to "public land", you won't have any more claim to being there than anybody else, and the gov. takes a dim view of people squatting on public land.

Take a look at what has happened in history to people who were "mobile". They became refugees. My grandparents were migrant farmers who came here from Oklahoma during the dust bowl migration. My grandparents and parents lived through the Great Depression. My family was hard working and was fortunate to setup a farm here after working as servants for a farmer who owned farmland here, but many others were not so fortunate.

Refugees, or even someone just passing through, are often not welcome.
 
If I have a choice in a pinch of grabbing the bag with the carbine and a couple of bandaleers of ammunition, or the bag with the water filtration equipment and 'Getting out of Dodge', I grabbing the bag with the carbine and ammunition.

I would most assuredly be the reverse. I see it this way. We're used to clean pure water in the streams and creeks around here. However, in the event that anyone needs to be "Getting out of Dodge", it most likely will mean that the lights are out and the water system is disrupted. What happens when everyone is crapping outside and drinking from the same stream? Cholera, Typhoid and dysentery will be back in full force. Just because they are not present in these current (happy) modern conditions really means nothing. We're talking a "Getting out of Dodge" moment. The water runoff will not be the quality we are use too, and as The Heretic says upthread, the worst time to get sick is in those kind of conditions. No heat, no water, no antibiotics, no nothing. A small bottle of Aquamira Water Treatment Drops or iodine tabs is super lightweight and will 100% eliminate those old time sickness's as a threat.

Cholera, Typhoid and dysentery will be much more likely to take you out than another citizen. If you research the Oregon Trail, that's what killed more than Indians, bad weather, Grizzlies/wild animals and accidents combined. In fact, if the SHTF and you were to meet a family that had bugged out without adequate water purification but plenty of weapons, I would suspect that most parents would gladly trade a weapon and ammo for a water filter, that is, the chance to keep their kids alive, once they realized what they were truly facing.

I have extras, mostly because I suspect my neighbors will have overlooked it.
 

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