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I can agree with both Andy and Pharmseller above. One can have their personal values and principles, which is great, and stick to them, which is admirable, without forcing them on others.

I've become more libertarian over the years. I've come to realize that I'm free to have my ideological beliefs (religion, politics) without needing the permission of others who might disagree. At the same time, they are free to have their views without needing my permission. At best, we can respect each other and get along or work together without squabbling over ideology.

That simple realization has helped me to just shrug it off when I'm around someone with a very different belief system or lifestyle than myself. They don't need my approval, nor I theirs. It's also helped me to not take the bait when someone wants to argue politics. I won't change their mind and they won't change mine, so I just keep my mouth shut for the most part, unless it seems there's a chance of sincere rational discussion.

I know this isn't exactly what we were talking about here, but it seems related.
 
I think you're going to need to share the work with your kids. Otherwise, what would happen when you have to travel for work? Who would take care of your wife? If you just try to get people to do things in an ad hoc way, you will always be nagging and kids will be resisting. Call a family meeting, get kids to list all chores, build a chart. Let them assign chores if possible. Your only job should be doing your job, paying the bills, taxes, paperwork.
I'm go short on details, mostly for the sake of the others in this thread that we kind of took over. :)

It's really not as bad as I might have made it sound. My wife isn't completely disabled. Ten years of tumors, surgeries, and joint replacements really took it out of her, and now she suffers from migraines and fibromyalgia often, but she does have good days along with the bad ones.

The house and family suffered from the rough years and it's really hard to dig back out from that. It takes consistent effort to instill self discipline in kids, and I'm afraid we didn't do a good job of that over those years, or consistent structure. They do well at chores when we're on them constantly, but that in itself takes a lot of effort, which my wife isn't very effective at when I'm at work.

We're going to be fine, and I know a lot of people go through worse. Everyone goes through rough times at some point in life. I look at my family and realize that all in all I'm pretty lucky.
 
Well played!

Yes, I noticed. Care to share an example?
Sure

I won't shop at Bi Mart, but I won't force my opinion on you.

And if someone had a good enough argument, I'd be willing to change my stance on shopping at Bi Mart. If, for instance, the people who made the decision to abrogate the 2A were to formally and genuinely apologize, I'd reconsider.

We all make mistakes. Not everyone takes ownership of their mistakes.




P
 
My mom lives a couple thousand miles away and will never move. She would never leave the farm for one thing. My youngest sister, never married, lives with her now, and another sister lives nearby with her family, so she has family around. She still sounds real lonely though. She's always been real active but is starting to slow down.

My family was farm-centric to an extreme degree. When they would come out here, they wouldn't spend much time with us because we lived in town, and when we'd visit there, my dad was always too busy with his precious farm to spend much time with us. As a result my kids barely ever knew them. Yeah it's a sore subject. Despite this, I try my best to be a good son, call regularly and talk about things that cheer her up. She put up with my dad for half a century; she deserves a good life in her golden years (though she refuses to admit she's getting old, she's always been so active).
Sounds like your mom is where she needs to be at this point in her life.

Interesting how for some grand parents their grand kids are the center of their lives. And some have no interest in their grandkids whatsoever.
 
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As a grandparent, I find that it is important that I not be too intrusive on my grandchildren. They must make their own way in life, and that includes family bonds.

One of the great things about grandparents for the young is that they are a symbol of stability. They have been there "forever" and usually don't change much. The exception to the "don't change" are the ones that retire elsewhere, but even those, in spite of the relocation, are still "there" if the kids want to connect.

My wife an I host family gatherings. New Years Eve, Easter, a family campout/reunion each summer, and others. Kids and grandkids may or may not attend, but all show up to one at least now and then. When they show up, they have a good time, as do all others.

Grandparents are where, if you show up, they always are happy to see you.
 
I knew all of my grandparents, and spent quite a bit of time with both of my grandfathers when I was growing up. It's such a great connection to previous generations. I used to love listening to all of my paternal grandpa's stories. The last year of his life, my maternal grandfather started telling me some of his stories from WWII that I had never heard. I regret that my kids haven't had the opportunity to know their grandparents.

My mom does love her grand kids, and my dad did too, in his own way. He just had this obsession with his farm; it was all-important to him and if you weren't part of it, you were never really part of his life.
 
I suppose it would depend on context. Generally I associate a strong moral stance with a line in the sand that one does not cross, but where there is plenty of gradient leading up to it. "All or nothing" to me is absolutism, which is a flawed way to think. Life isn't a binary set of A vs B decisions - it's way more complex.
Is not the whole point of the line in the sand that it is absolute? Is it not then "all or nothing"? Cross or do not cross. One can take these philosophical concepts a bit too far at times. I think that may have happened a few times in this thread.
 
Grandparents are where, if you show up, they always are happy to see you.
Ahhh. An analog to "Home is the place where, if you have to go there, they have to take you in." From Robert Frost's poem "Death of the Hired Man." One of his very long poems, and one of my favorites.
 
All or nothing in Religion has to be the biggest ....Pair Of Ducks.
Religion sets standards you can't ever meet, but are supposed to work at attaining the goal when you die.
Whether you die at birth or 110 years old. You still do not attain the goal until you die.
This is a system in place in most religions. Even reincarnation, is a system of living a life a certain way so the
next is rewarding.

As far as buying other Pair Of Ducks, all or nothing.
Other then you break in my house to have all I do. You will end life there with nothing.
 
All or nothing in Religion has to be the biggest ....Pair Of Ducks.
Religion sets standards you can't ever meet, but are supposed to work at attaining the goal when you die.
Whether you die at birth or 110 years old. You still do not attain the goal until you die.
This is a system in place in most religions. Even reincarnation, is a system of living a life a certain way so the
next is rewarding.

As far as buying other Pair Of Ducks, all or nothing.
Other then you break in my house to have all I do. You will end life there with nothing.
Docks, not ducks.

OIP.jpg

With that out of the way, I'm sorry to hear that you feel superior to most of the planet.
 
When it comes to lines in the sand and ethics, the problem is that the hardest choices we have are not usually between right and wrong but between different versions of wrong. Between two options both of which you believe to be wrong by your own ethical standards.
 
The problem with sand is it gets in your butt crack and you don't know it so when you shower and see all the sand in the shower you freak out a little and wonder where the hell did all this sand come from?

I hate that.




P
 

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