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Long range hunting is an increasing trend these days. My guess is the conditions which they zeroed at were not the same as the hunt location... temp, humidity, altitude.

I wasnt there, but if they truly hit vitals I dont see how a bear could travel over 400 yds with a double lung shot.
There have been many people shot in police shootouts who were hit in the vitals and continued to fight for quite some time. Miami dade is one of them. Even if the heart or lungs are taken out completely there the possibility of a minute or more of oxygen in the brain to sustain life functions. A very angry grizzly at full sprint wouldn't take too long to close in on 400yards. And remember, the 400m world record for a human is about 43 seconds, a bear at 35mph would cleat that distance in 23. There is no doubt in my mind that it could have gotten to them with plenty left in the tank to kill both.
 
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Bear/Human encounters are a spectator sport in Montana.
 
Can't help it . I automatically dislike anyone wearing kooey
Quality gear is a must if you back country hunt or backpack camp. Kuiu and firstlite gear is high on my list. Wool under layers synthetic over layers stuff that doesn't absorb water, dries quickly, is light and packs small. I've been beating the crap out of both of those brands for years and if you can find stuff that fits on there super sale or outlets is well worth buying. Military surplus stuff although cheaper and good quality is generally so overbuilt it's too heavy and bulky.
 
Quality gear is a must if you back country hunt or backpack camp.
This statement is spot on. While I don't actually own any Sitka or Kuiu, I do have some early Under Armor and some Badlands gear. If hunting locally and the weather is mild (especially early bow season) I may be wearing cheap camo jeans and a cotton t-shirt. If I'm far from home, I break out the good stuff. One thing I will not "cheap out" on is boots. While I haven't yet been able to swallow the money for one of those $400+ pairs, I won't wear a $75 pair of boots either. Besides, the cheap boots aren't really cheap if you have to replace them every year.
 
Pretty wild how a popped primer put the rifle out of commission. Also, I wonder if he was wearing a guides choice chest holster? My revolver has jumped out of mine before,,,
 
Quality gear is a must if you back country hunt or backpack camp. Kuiu and firstlite gear is high on my list. Wool under layers synthetic over layers stuff that doesn't absorb water, dries quickly, is light and packs small. I've been beating the crap out of both of those brands for years and if you can find stuff that fits on there super sale or outlets is well worth buying. Military surplus stuff although cheaper and good quality is generally so overbuilt it's too heavy and bulky.
"Quality gear" certainly is a must. It existed long before any fashion statement/designer brands. Fabric technology has evolved, but the best example of "not really evolved all that far" is that polypropylene undergarments are really great, but silk is still far, far superior for weight, insulation, and drying capability. Another example is the immutable fact that (according to my Alaskan brother), "Gore-Tex is nice. Rubber is waterproof."

There is no reason for a single set of camo clothing to cost multiple hundreds of dollars, other than "brand blindness" by hunters who've been indoctrinated that gadgets and money outlay will get the game, coupled with manufacturers only too eager to cultivate the illusion.

100 miles above the Arctic Circle on a self-guided trip, my "wardrobe" of wool and silk (and shudder the thought: Cotton toward certain applications) served admirably. Sheep don't care if your shirt matches your pants or what you paid for them, or what brand label is purposefully obvious. Cash required for a five-hundred dollar fashion ensemble went instead to a taxidermy bill.

The arrival of a hunter in my camp wearing a high-dollar coordinated outdoor version of poodle skirts, bobby sox and saddle shoes says one thing:

"Dude".


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"Quality gear" certainly is a must. It existed long before any fashion statement/designer brands. Fabric technology has evolved, but the best example of "not really evolved all that far" is that polypropylene undergarments are really great, but silk is still far, far superior for weight, insulation, and drying capability. Another example is the immutable fact that (according to my Alaskan brother), "Gore-Tex is nice. Rubber is waterproof."

There is no reason for a single set of camo clothing to cost multiple hundreds of dollars, other than "brand blindness" by hunters who've been indoctrinated that gadgets and money outlay will get the game, coupled with manufacturers only too eager to cultivate the illusion.

100 miles above the Arctic Circle on a self-guided trip, my "wardrobe" of wool and silk (and shudder the thought: Cotton toward certain applications) served admirably. Sheep don't care if your shirt matches your pants or what you paid for them, or what brand label is purposefully obvious. Cash required for a five-hundred dollar fashion ensemble went instead to a taxidermy bill.

The arrival of a hunter in my camp wearing a high-dollar coordinated outdoor version of poodle skirts, bobby sox and saddle shoes says one thing:

"Dude".


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There are a lot of things to take into account, rubber is waterproof but if you do a strenuous hike in it you'll be just as soaked with sweat as you would have been from the rain. Wool undergarments are antimicrobial and you can hike two strenuous days in it and not smell like a locker room. Packability and weight are crucial and I have spent a lot of money upgrading. I have a fantastic military Gore-Tex coat and pants that will keep you dry but unfortunately they don't pack down are heavy and they take up more space in my pack than my tent my titanium tent stove, My extra pair of clothes and my sleeping woobie. I'm not about to pay 500 or $700 for some stupid coat but I'm not bringing along under Armour, Cabela's brand or guide gear garbage either. Kifaru, firstlite, kuiu, hill people and Sitka are expensive And I don't have a full lineup of anything but I've been very happy with their gear I've abused it and when I'm a three day hike from my truck it's nice to have something you can trust.
 
I'm not bringing along under Armour, Cabela's brand or guide gear garbage either.
Under Armour ain't what it used to be, but throwing them in with Guide Gear is rather harsh. LOL. I have some early Under Armour that is good stuff, and I'm still using it today. It is showing its age, but still functional. The quality seemed to go down significantly when they expanded. Guide Gear on the other hand, strikes me more as "one time usage" and don't bet your life on it.
 
"...Gore-Tex coat and pants that will keep you dry..."

On a scheduled 8 day trip which turned into 11 before the bush plane came back, breaking camp everyday to be ready for pull-out, standing in the rain and looking up at the sky for 3 days, eating nothing but Sheep and low-bush blueberries, no it won't.

"Gore-Tex is nice..."
 
"...Gore-Tex coat and pants that will keep you dry..."

On a scheduled 8 day trip which turned into 11 before the bush plane came back, breaking camp everyday to be ready for pull-out, standing in the rain and looking up at the sky for 3 days, eating nothing but Sheep and low-bush blueberries, no it won't.

"Gore-Tex is nice..."
Gortex is absolutely waterproof - until it is not. Bowhunting elk in Hell's Canyon with a fine pair of Danner boots with Gortex lining, my feet were dry as a bone for the first three days. Unfortunately it wasn't a three day hunt. Thank goodness for wool socks. I was wet and uncomfortable, but not freezing. That's back when Danner made respectable boots too. Not the stuff they're selling these days.
 
"...Gore-Tex coat and pants that will keep you dry..."

On a scheduled 8 day trip which turned into 11 before the bush plane came back, breaking camp everyday to be ready for pull-out, standing in the rain and looking up at the sky for 3 days, eating nothing but Sheep and low-bush blueberries, no it won't.

"Gore-Tex is nice..."
Gore-Tex can and will leak but nothing is perfect and the cheaper the gear you buy the farther away from perfect it will be
 
I think Gore-Tex and its derivatives hold the water out pretty darn good. It's the seams that give it up and cause leakage.
 
I think Gore-Tex and its derivatives hold the water out pretty darn good. It's the seams that give it up and cause leakage.
Morgan Freeman Reaction GIF by MOODMAN


GoreTex is a fabric, and an old one at that. Some companies use it well and make really nice gear. Others cheap out.

Don't get the wish dot com jacket and you should be fine.
 
It's sad to see hunters eat their own. If someone can afford to go buy really high quality name brand gear off the rack, that (shudder) matches, who cares? And if you like surplus wool, great.

I think Sitka and Kuiu is great stuff. I'd like to have a bunch more of it. Whether it is worth the price is certainly debatable.

Yes there is a douchy subset of hunters/posers that think they can buy there way into success, and the frustrating thing is that to some extent, they are right. There's no substitute for stalking skill, fitness and experience, but higher end gear, can give you an advantage. It's like that with benchrest, golf, pretty much anything that requires gear.
 
Under Armour ain't what it used to be, but throwing them in with Guide Gear is rather harsh. LOL. I have some early Under Armour that is good stuff, and I'm still using it today. It is showing its age, but still functional. The quality seemed to go down significantly when they expanded. Guide Gear on the other hand, strikes me more as "one time usage" and don't bet your life on it.

It's sad to see hunters eat their own. If someone can afford to go buy really high quality name brand gear off the rack, that (shudder) matches, who cares? And if you like surplus wool, great.

I think Sitka and Kuiu is great stuff. I'd like to have a bunch more of it. Whether it is worth the price is certainly debatable.

Yes there is a douchy subset of hunters/posers that think they can buy there way into success, and the frustrating thing is that to some extent, they are right. There's no substitute for stalking skill, fitness and experience, but higher end gear, can give you an advantage. It's like that with benchrest, golf, pretty much anything that requires gear.
The absolute focus on brand names here makes my point better than I ever could. Absent is any talk of specifics toward the clothing itself: fabric type (aside from brief references to Gore-Tex), how that fabric works, apparel design compared to others, etc. etc., etc.

I took the time to find out why Gore-Tex failed when it did...and why it always will fail. I still own some, will probably buy more, but under certain conditions rubber is the ONLY answer.

Perhaps its because people that are buying fashion camo cannot be bothered with learning about what they bought, let alone become able to defend the purchase with a bank of knowledge about the product. Their bank of money spent on it cannot allow for any discovery that might be less than positive.

To my way of thinking, this focus on brands with no analysis of the gear itself is not so very far from trophy wives discussing handbags: Gucci or Coach?

And the tragedy is that a new hunter will be led to believe it is mandatory for his success.
 
Just to be clear, my story about Gore-Tex boots eventually leaking on me is not a condemnation of Gore-Tex. If I'm looking for breathable and waterproof, that's what I go with still. I've tried other boots with their "proprietary" XXXX-DRY linings and have not had nearly as good of an outcome as going with Gore-Tex. As @Unicykle said, nothing is perfect. I remember greasing my leather boots with Sno-Seal and such back in the day. They always leaked sooner rather than later. Gore-Tex is good stuff. As for Kuiu and Sitka, I would love to receive some as gifts, or win some at an RMEF banquet. I don't hunt mountain goats or Dall Sheep or grizzly bear (notice how I tied that in so I can't be accused of thread drift?), so the gear I have works well enough to dissuade me from shelling out the dough on Kuiu and Sitka. At my age, I don't see those hunts in my future either.

Honestly, I don't see this thread as hunters eating their own either. Mostly good-natured ribbing. I've got friends that show up to archery 3D shoots wearing Kuiu gear when it's 60 degrees and no rain in sight. It's good-looking stuff, but I'd save it for when I need it. Whatever. What someone else wears really doesn't matter to me much at all.

I do need to hear more from @slimmer13 about how high-end equipment can give me an advantage at golf though. I've got an UGLY swing. :(
 
The absolute focus on brand names here makes my point better than I ever could. Absent is any talk of specifics toward the clothing itself: fabric type (aside from brief references to Gore-Tex), how that fabric works, apparel design compared to others, etc. etc., etc.

I took the time to find out why Gore-Tex failed when it did...and why it always will fail. I still own some, will probably buy more, but under certain conditions rubber is the ONLY answer.

Perhaps its because people that are buying fashion camo cannot be bothered with learning about what they bought, let alone become able to defend the purchase with a bank of knowledge about the product. Their bank of money spent on it cannot allow for any discovery that might be less than positive.

To my way of thinking, this focus on brands with no analysis of the gear itself is not so very far from trophy wives discussing handbags: Gucci or Coach?

And the tragedy is that a new hunter will be led to believe it is mandatory for his success.

Have you tried the name brand stuff?

I never really thought too much about it until I tried it. My BIL let me wear some of his Sitka cold weather gear coyote hunting. It was about 7° and I was amazed how warm I stayed for how thin and light it was. I've been outdoors in the cold with all kinds of gear on. This was the most pleasant experience.

I don't really care about the molecular composition of the material.
 

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